40K Source

hmm, messing about with the SWPS for GMOD andf i made a pritty damn good bolter. spaned a load of antlions and when on a funkly killing spree.

1st thing i notised.

boltgun should have a slow in beetween shots

almost 0.25 secondas or a bit more, but being able to kill a antlion/gaunt in one shot,

its so much more satisfing than killing a antlion/gaunt in 1 shot with a single shot whan a faster gun killing a n antline in 2 shots.

i dont know what you guys think but this is just something i was thinking about.

sorry i know your probably already have a good idea but i just couldnet resist putting down my own experianser in what a boltgun should feel like  

meh oh well now you can flame me and tell me im wrong :)

I don't about killing gaunts in 1 shot, maybe if theres about 20 coming at you then sure. But I highly doubt theres going to be that many coming at you due to latency issues. Perhaps 2 shots per gaunt.

The bolters on tabletop are rapid fire. Now, what that means is, you get half the range but you can shoot 2 shots instead of one. Or you can take one careful shot at twice the range.

Maybe this can be implemented by giving the gun a high recoil, and when you fire it, the camera jerks in a direction just a little and you have to regain control. And if you want to shoot multiple shots, you'll have a difficult time trying to aim longer distances. Perhaps have the same firing rate as RS1, but stronger and more recoil.

As for satisfaction, that can be easily changed. All we need is a little more alien goo flying out of the wounds, and more blood on the walls. (Smod style)

the boltgun will be shooting 0.75mm mini missle that will be capable of doing some sick damage.

look at the bolter in FireWarrior, it ill work somethign like that.

As for more than a few coming at you, thats what nades are for. Nid go boom...

thats on the tabletop,  fluff wise a bolter can penatrat a marines faceplat and blow a marens head of, with one shot,
also a bolter gets ether 1 shotof for conserving ammo or a 4 round burst.
 (read hiorus hearesy for the blowing marnes heads of)

i agree with the bolter from RS 1 being a perfect template. it has a bolter feel, but i think the feel of a bolter should be a little bit heavyer,  oh and i want to blow nids up

0.75mm ??? :lol:
I think you've muddled your units. I always thought that the bolter fired 0.75'' rounds (about 19-20mm).



A bolter round might cause significant damage to a Space Marines helmet (plus some nasty blunt trauma) but I think it's unlikely to penetrate unless it hits the eye piece or the armour has already be weakened by previous impacts. Space Marine power armour is pretty impervious to most standard small arms (slug throwers, las weapons, bolters etc..), you really need to hit it with something powerful like plasma, melta and heavy weapons to ensure penetration.

yes you are correct, 0.75mm is a small size for a bullet, my architectural training mean i stick mm after all sizes. They are actually 0.75 caliber, which makes them 0.75 of a inch which is  19.0500mm.

about the thickness of your thumb.

So, will there be an explosion effect at bolt impact?  :)

I would make a shower of blood and gore when hitting a gaunt, and an ordinary explosion when hitting a hard-shelled tyrant. Maybe different effect depending on what bodypart it impacts on.
And ordinary explosions when hitting rock/sand/metal as well.

thanks to the wonder of SOURCE it already does that due to the material nature of each part.

For instance if you shoot the "soft" bits if a guant you get blood splat (it will be purple ichor by the time of release) however if you shoot the "hard" parts, that of the carapace, you get bit of it being chipped off.

The exact explosion of the bolt is still to be decided as there descirbed as exploding after they imbed themselfs in their target thus doing more damage, so should it have an visable explosion at all, or should it just cause a lot of damage and blood spray with a big hit on the model causing it to fly back on death.

On a interesting side note the fluff description gives it a detonator that looks for change in internal mass/pressure with a split second delay. So technically you would be unable to shoot into water with it as theres a change in pressure and mass that would casue it to activate.

I guess there's some kind of mimimum pressure / mass increase necessary to activate the detonator. If a bolt  was shot into water it wouldn't detonate until it reached a depth at which the pressure would be sufficient to cause it to explode. I'm not sure how well the rocket propellent would work under water though.

ok being playiong about with the sweps and i nearly got something viable and fun. i havent worked out a the correct damage for killing an antlion in 2 hits, they all seasm to just drop dead very quickly but hey.

just a few tweeks and you will be blowing up antlions very quickly and slowly . huh. well anyway. its quite fun doing this.  i might play about with the antimatter ball to make a plasma gun next. or something :)

quickly AND slowly? :D something isn't right here!  :roll:

what i ment was killing each antlion quickly with very few shots but shooting very very slowly meh

I don't like the all "low firing" discussion about Bolters. I mean, check Dawn of War...
if it's true that they are "heavy" weapons, it's also true that Space Marines aren't normal humans :)

If bolters are considered rapid fire-weapons in table-top, they should be
... well, firering fast.

And even without the fluff I would prefere a resonabely fast firering bolter to a slow and heavy one.

umm sory to break it to you but all basic trooper weapons on TT fire 1 once or twice.  when i think of bolt guns i think of a steady stream of mass reactive bolts heading towards you. the fact that each clip holds 30 bolts and a marnes is usually only equiped with 5 or 6 clips. thats only usually 180 bolts per marne. each marne is trained to preserve what ammunition they have so a high rate of fire weapon is not usually a good idea or a standar battle in 40k universe would last 2 minuetsn before everybody ran out of ammo. just think about it. most battles nowadys people usually use suppressive fire or rifles of 1 or 2 shots a time. well thats how the uk army do it. RS1 is good with this where all the weapons fire at about the right rate. alugh i think the bolter fires too fast for the ammunition you have, you quickly run out, same with shurican cat although im not supprised at that, but an ork shoota should be faster and have much more ammo

a bolter is rapid fire, which in TT means one shot up to 24, and 2 shots up to 12.

i perceve this as single shot and burst respectivly.

i still maintain the best thing about Firewarrior was that it accuratly represented how a boltgun fires and i personally think that our boltgun should fire in a similar manor, although when it comes down to it we will have to see what works in testing and then balance it off what the fluff says.

firewarrior was wrong with most weapons but the bolt gun was accurate than most weapons, beter than the pulse rifle and pulse carbine, th las rifle was not veruy good but beams are hard to make and the railrifle was just a shock rifle. but i agree the boltgun was accurat

Hmm, I don't like using firewarrior as a basis for a discussion... imo the game was yet another disastrous attempt at a 40K adaptation and was all in all completely horrific

despite the horriable ness of the whole game, i feel the boltgun they came up with was the best thing about it. It fired small missles, it fired them one at a time or in burst at a cost of accuracy.

It fired them as they are fluff described, although the art work always shows something different.

Ya that was the one good thing about firewarrior, most(not all) of the weapons were background correct. Though the explosion of the bolter round was a little bit over done imo, it was nearly the size of the marine lol

I always think of the bolter as having both a semi-automatic and full-automatic fire modes, using a principle similar to modern day assault rifles - for most situations the weapon is used in semi-auto because it's easier to control, allows for greater accuracy and conserves ammunition. It's only at really close ranges, often in built up areas where Line Of Sight is very limited where the greater firepower of a fully automatic weapon really pays off. I don't see the bolters automatic rate of fire being especially high though, prehaps 4-6 bolts per second (compared to about 8 rounds per second for a WWII SMG).

boltguns are not mondernay conventional weapons, they are singleshot missile launchers in effect that can qute possibly get a maximum 4 round burst, if the gun fires any faster itr will be prone to jam, boltguns are increadbly unreliable thats why marines spend half there free time servising just there boltguns

I didn't say boltguns were conventional weapons, I said the theory behind the use of semi-auto and full-auto modes of fire would be the same as modern weapons.

Personally I think the fluff about the bolter being complex and unreliable is ridiculous - what the hell is so complex about it? All the bolter itself does is trigger the propellent within the shell casing to launch the bolt from the barrel, after which the bolts own propellent ignites. It's the ammunition that is complex, expensive and difficult to manufacture.

actually thats not entirly true, commercailly avilable boltguns are not highly relyable (see necromunda stuff), However Space marine issue boltguns are a breed appart. There precision engineered and manufactured for the Space Marines. I mean why the hell would you give your best fighting force a crappy weapon.

maintence is to appease the machines spirit more than it is to keep the gun working.

Although in sayign all this, god only knows what will happen when we get it in game and testing, it could be a rapid fire bolter is what we need after all.

yeah, but i expect the marnes to be hard as rock and nails when we get to play, only slightly harder than a warrior. but a warrior when up close would rip a marne head from limbs etc. the marnes should be the heardidt thing ever.

well health wise the marine will be significantly weaker than the warrior.

basically the only thing going for the marine will be the silly amount of guns he carries with him into battle and their ability to do some real damage.

I really hope you meant the silly amount of damage those guns can do, rather than the amount of guns he can carry...

thats what i said, read ti again carefully this time...

What about the Space Marines rather spiffing power armour? That should provide quite significant protection against some attacks (fleshborers for example).

yes it will indeed provide some decent cover from that kind of thing, dont like your chances again the claws tho...