40K Source

This is Imperials vs Tyranids.

Two teams, both controlled by players, with AI support.
Imperials containing Spacemarines and Imperial Guards.
Tyranids are just Tyranids.


The objective is to destroy the enemy mainbase or HQ.
There are a number of controllpoints located in the maps,
which gives points over time to the team that holds them.
Both teams will get a small amount of points from thier HQ,
but the rate will increase if they capture more controllpoints.
When a team get more points they unlock better units and equipment.


Playing as Tyranids:
You choose what type of unit you will be playing.
Then you organize your squad as you like it,
choosing from melee and ranged units (insert basic tyranid unittypes here).
The squad will have four AI controlled units to start with.
But as the team-points gets higher you get to controll more squadmembers,
and get tougher unittypes.
You can also choose a better unit for yourself as the team-points rise.
The size of your squad depends on what unittype you play and the amount of team-points your team have.


Playing as Imperials:
You can either play as a Space Marine or as an Imperial Guardsman.
As a marine you just select weaponry, like bolter and grenades.
With higher team-points you can select heavy weapons, jet-packs and even be a terminator.
As a Guardsman you will have a squad to compensate for the lack of powerarmour,
the squad will contain two AI controlled guards to start with, but can have more squadmembers and better weapons with higher team-points.
You can also choose to play without the squad if you select to controll a sentinel or some other lightarmoured vehicle (jeep).
For the Guardsmen heavy weapons might need to be mounted on a vehicle like a jeep or a sentinel.

// Nic2

A mode like this has been devised, were calling it Synapse as you play as the 'Nid Synapse creatures.

In "Synapse" as it is currently planned all the AIs are on the Tyranid side, in order to give the effect of the Tyranids being this huge swarm and the Marines being a comparitively small, elite force.  AIs on both sides might make it feel like a bigger battle, but it would loose the aspect of fighting the swarm.

A control points system like the one you suggest hasnt been included in the planned modes because it feels like too artifical for the 40k universe, like game mechanics for its own sake.

Hmm, so you mean that all unittypes will be avalible at start?
And you say that AI should only be for tyranids.. that means guardsmen are not in the game or useless. :/

thats not been decided yet, although right no theres no IG in it althouogh that may change as we decide where to go with it.

Their has been talk of A.I. IG guarding certain places in the map that the Nids would have to wipe out to proceed. Nothing is sure yet.

The unit types being available all depends on the game mode, which hasnt been settled yet.

Imperial guard are being considered for use in some modes, but for the most part were planning for  the imperial players to use Space Marines.

I think it would be pretty interesting if the AI Guardsmen used Combine Soldier and/or Resistance Fighter intelligence.  You probably wouldn't have to program much more; any AI deficiencies could be explained by the fact that they're just nubbish Imperial Guard and the players are elite Space Marines ;p

-Prok

my understaning of the way A.I. work in HL2 is that it is easyer to base it off the existing enemies so its ore than likly that the code of the IG will be based of the squad code of the combice squads.

Seems like some nice enough ideas.

I don't like the control-point idea, the game should simmulate small encounters and surgical strike-missions rather than huge battles.
So, either 1 HQ per team, or a series of objectives.

I do like the idea of AI-controlled swarm minions. It would give the newbs a chance to kill something too.

 :idea:  Normally, all player classes have to be at the same level of power, like in Battlefield 1945.
But you could have a system with class limitations.
For example, the Imperial side could have 1 Terminator slot, 3 Space Marine slots and unlimited guard slots.
So, from the start only 1 player could be Terminator.
After say 3 minutes the Terminator slot refills, and a dead player can choose it, and if the first Terminator is still alive, the team now have 2 Terminators.
But there will never be more than 1 "available slot", no matter how long time the team waits.

Effects of the system:
- A team can get a significant advantage over the other, if its players stays alive long enough.
- The teams does not get heavier and heavier equipment, like in NS, but stays at roughly the same power level.
- You can actually use over-powering player units, like Carnifexes, without spoiling the game balance.
- The teams don't need to have an equal amount of players, as the fewer players will have more heavy unit slots to use.

Maybe there should be a system that makes the heavy equipment available to the best players on the team first, so newbs don't waste the teams resources.

Fixed slots for superior classes was considered early on, however their is an issue is with choosing who gets those superior classes.

If you give them to the best players, they will dominate the game, making it feel unfair to lesser players.

If you make it first come first served the players with the fastest mouse and lowest ping get them, since these guys are probably the same as the as the best players you get the same problem.

If you had them out randomly it can feel very arbitary and you almost always never end up with the class you want and no-one feels rewarded.

Finally balancing mixed strengths of classes in games with varying numbers of players can be very tricky.

Yes, I can see the problems.
Here are a couple of suggestions for fixes.

The fastest-ping-gets-super can be fixed by having an initial delay to the slots.

Maybe the choosing of the super-classes could be limited by a player point-system.
At any time the player can select which classes he want to stand in line to.
Spawning as a class costs point after the class power, but not if he is the only one in line for it (so people does not use up points for uncontested slots).
The player can use the slot if he is among the top point players that have requested it.
So, if there are 2 slots available for a class, and 5 have requested it, only the 3 (2+1) top point players can spawn as the class.

I don't think the points should be awarded for frags and so, but mainly for the waiting time.

Results:
The first dead probably re-spawns with the heavy equipment.
As everyone requests it, it'll take a long time before he can have it again.
If everyone requests heavy armor, they will each have a round with it.
People will go for different classes, as they don't cost points if you are the only one requesting.
People can specialize in mid-level classes, and get them very often if they stay from the high-level classes.
Dying becomes painfull, as you'll probably have to start up as a grunt and loose your terminator-armor.
Players with powerfull equipment will therefore be catious not to die to loose it.
Problem: If no points are awarded for frags, some players might be tempted to hide away to stay alive.

Of cause it can be tricky to balance the game with the different super-units, but well, it's worth the try.
Sometimes someone have to do something different.
And Battlefield Vietnam was successful even though the American anti-tank class was by far superior to both the fighter and the engineer class.

Are you planning on letting people start off with the big armour (termie suits etc) and after a certian number of uses of the termie class, making it un avalilbe and people start having to move down to lower sub classes, eg. Marines w/ Haevy Bolters, rocket launchers, etc???

dont think thats the plan, its more the other way round like RS is just now, better gear the better you play.

I can understand if people have problems understanding what I suggested, it got a bit technical.

Basicly, the team can only spawn their powerful classes at a certain interval, f.x. marine each 20 sec, terminator each 2 min.
Then who gets the suit?
It's random, but with a twist to it.
Each player can choose whether they want to stand in line for a class or not, so you'll not be forced to play a class that you hate.
If several people (say 3+) stands in line for the same class, then it cannot be taken by the player(s) that have had it the most times already.

The team can end up having several heavies at the map, IF they can stay alive long enough for the next to spawn.
There should be a "free" light class (Imperial guardsman) that people can always spawn as.

I hope people understand it now, else ask.

Ah  :roll:  I get it now.  It seems we might leave people waiting around a lot in that case.

Ahh, genius. Are the Nids going to be Bots all the time???

We have worked out plans for 4 different game modes for the Tyranids setting, there will be a short poll about which one to do once the setting has been settled.  One of those 4 modes has the tyranids as all AIs,

the problem is that the poll is stagnant for a long time..
isn't the time to end that?

I'm hopeing a new intake of RS players will be voting following the release of a new version.  I'm keeping the poll running for the RS release.

Their are still some things that can be done without having the setting and game mode fixed.  Making imperial maps and models to mention a few.  

While the delay is annoying it is also great oppertunity to gather our ideas and really think through the planned modes.

well, that is true... :)

if AI nids is chosen(hopefully) cud the game have classes, like DoD:S kind of, i ask this because it cud be like a survival squad based game where u got to do the objective with ur squadbefore u all die, u can limit certain classes iswell, eg. 1 sergeant, infinit basic marine, scout sniper etc
i say scout snipe bcoz i wanna be a sniper  :)
also wud be cool to watch ur squad get smaller, as it does the survivors huddle closer together, frantically watching each others backs, this setting wud be good for clans as they wud be organized and all 1337

you have to post on Moddb.com, then you will get attention. for all i know, RS1 is listed as number 4(!) on moddb.com, and that is status in my eyes. i think that you will get fairly good with attention if you post there. Librarium-Online members weren't really interested in RS2 tho :(

after that wave of voters, i know you can surely close the polls.

In my opinion Wolf's suggestion could be good for a mod, but not for this mod.
If I decode his message correctly he suggests a Delta Force / Battlefield style map where you sneak forward to pick off targets a mile away.
W40K are more about close-quaters battles, with lots of melee troops and weaponery.
Not that I say that there could never be a sniper class in the mod, but it shouldn't rule the game.
The class could be weakened by level design and having a slow "aim-rate", meaning you have to point the crossair at a target for some time before it gets precise.

We have a couple of modes sketched out that use DOD style "balanced sets", where all classes are available from the start and all are equal overall with strengths and weakneses.  One weakness of a sniper scout class is that he has puny armor compared to regular marines.  All the "balanced set" modes we've planned so far are also player vs player modes, so you wont always see the bugs coming...

hmmm...
I hate stuff like restrictions or the best gets it :?
I think if u choose to be a terminator you should also be a superior fighter overall. good firepower, very strong close combat "slap" with the fist but very slow too.
I think it should simple take a lot time until you can take a "tactical dreadnaught suit" again. As Terminators have been developed for close range fights on ships and stuff i would suggest, that they have a really great firepower but not that accurate over the distance.
A sniper team should have an absolutly big chance to kill a terminator team, so again we have a class against a class...
thats the system i would like, because you also would have to use the whole bunch of classes because the mix does it, not the mass!
Sniper take out slow but powerful classes;
Sniper can be taken out easily by assault and agile classes.
Standart marine could be a allround player with good stats against everything...
You know what i mean? Something like: "Oh my god! They are all Terminators what should we do? How can we win against 6 Terminators?"
Answer: "Well... you 3 take sniper-classes,2 standart classes and 1 assault class! Now we wait until the snipers finished off those bulky terminators, then the standart give backup when they respawn and the assault class takes the objective... easy win!"
 :wink:  something like that ^^

p.s.:
Can you build in drop pod or deep strikers for each side? would give some tactical advances. Like you take a 20 second longer respawntime if u get killed next time but u can land almost everywhere on the map ^^

there is on major problem with that system, and one we have seen in the current RS.

everyone takes the terminators and the bigger guns regardless.

the other problem is you dont get warning of what is coming in a round untill you actually run round the corner and meet the enemy in the face so peopl are unable to plan what you have just described without dieing at least once, thus limiting any further spawns.

The other issue is there there is no doable way to implimen the "your better player so you get better gear" system. You can have what RS has just now which is the You are  better player, you can earn more points thus get better gear but even a inexperienced player cn given sufficient time and th right server, get the good stuff. Plus its a bit unfair, the better plaers just keep getting better through the more advanced gear and we have new players hating the game cos that lame termi player has all the best stuff.

We have to have restrictions on the equipment you can have, in part because thats how the 40k universe works in TT game terms and in part becuse allowing everyone access to everything means terminators with lascannons and thats plain wrong and violates a lot of 40k fluff.

Also it means having to balance weapons rather than classes which is  lot harder to do and moe time consuming. Also you can end up with some weapons being made redundant, the bolt pisolt would probably disappear as people would take the boltgun as a backup gun and a heavy weapon as a main.

I guess thats one good thing about ll the versions of RS we have seen, we know what ca work and what can stink.

well i guess the problem is mainly that no other game has something like terminator armored superhumans against small and fragile space elves  :wink:

im still no friend of the system in old rs now because its like u said... good players with better gear just getting better... i just have seen it a few hours ago...

but u also cant do it like on tabletop because 1 terminator would be capable of taking out squad of eldar gardists...
for example i think that a flamer ist just to strong against everything as slow as a terminator...
well i think we´ll see what the future brings  :wink:
i´m just happy that u guys doing such wh40k mods  :wink:

that isnt wot i ment at all, iw as jsut trying to emphasize on having a tactical aprt to the game, isntead of 1 guy running in shooting it all, a game where team work is good and u cover each other etc

thats the same i meant with: the mix does it not the mass (or the terminator :wink: )

OK, so I guess I did not decode you correctly.  8)

I just don't like the sniper class for 2 reasons:
1. Sniper rifles are very rare in 40k. I think there is a limitation to 1-2 snipers per imperial guard ARMY.
2. There are some crazy CS players out there that will dominate any game where they can get a sniper.

So I say: go for heavy weapons instead. Lascannons, rocket launchers and heavy bolters should give people reason enough to do team-work, as they should have heavy firepower but slow reload-time, leaving the user defenceless if he haven't got anyone as backup.

And about the terminators collecting lascannons and having assault weapons too - NO  :evil:
I say every player should have only one (1) weapon, plus a close-combat wepon and perhaps grenades. No sidearms.

By the way, what do you say to my suggestion for the classes?
Only one or two terminators per team, given out at random, you can not have termie armor twice in a row (unless you survive a very long time with it), you can choose not to stand in line for termie armor to get heavy weapons more often instead.
Maybe the worst 20 % (one in five) players shouldn't be able to "waste" the teams terminator slots.

classes shudnt be given out at random, make the player earn a terminatus dont give it him jsut as he joins the server, make the player earn his way thru the ranks of the adeptus astartus

Typheron said it all.  8)

im kinda liking the way RS1 is dealing wiht the choise of equipment right now, you earn the gear via points, but the really cool stuff costs a lot and becomes more of a prestegee class where you only really earn maybe one or two spawns of it during a game.

Although current thinking in the RS dev camp is that termis my not be in the game and it will be Space Marine kill teams were working with. Probably a good choise of equipment a bit more like a deathwatch style of weapon choise. Were still not sure yet but once we know for sure what were using things will get moving fast.

Yeah, the easiest solution is to simply leave the Terminators out of it. They are not really needed, many SM armies are fielded without any termies at all.
But there should be some different Tyranid species, just one size wouldn't fit the feel of the race.

the plans we have for it have almot every single type of nid available in the end, although it depends on what game style gets voted for  when the race poll is closed, but for synapse its this, you can have 2 types of nid, synapse creatures (nid warriors) and singles. the singles are things like carnifexes and lictors which will be the more expensive one off classes. The nid warriors will have access to broods that they controll. The broods are a bit like the antlions and go where they are told. They would be made up of the smaller nids, gaunts of various types and the like. Stealers would either be a one off or based in a brood arround a broodlord.

Like i said were not sure if termis ill be in game, it may be the kill team thing mentioned with everyone in power armour lead by a hero of some kind (librarian, Captain, Chaplain, whatever works) and have access to a lot of varied equipment. Things like the hellfire round for their bolters perhaps,power weapons and the like.

So space marines will all be about the uberness of the one and the nids will be about the uberness of the many.

Or something like that, its all a work in progress and no decisions are final.

this would be GREAT!
just imagine the tactical employement of different characters, like the apothecary! Considerating the use of a full tactical squad the Termies could be cut out of the game.

Then we got the same problem again  :(
Either we have to de-power the hero seriously, so it's at level with regular marines, or we will need a system to determine who get to be the hero...

how about, when the map starts, u have 1 normal round with all basic marines, but then determining what each player did in that round they can pick dif classes, eg a player captures the item and take it back in 1 round, for the enxt round he can have a wider oppertunity of gear compared to someone who shot a few orks/nids, make what u get dependant on the round before

Hehe this topic is way OT :p (gameplay suggestion not gameplay suggestions) ;)

But since it has come to this..

I think that you should have classes and that they should be picked by just selecting them and have some limitations and the fastest player gets the class first. (every other game have it like this and ppl accept it :p)
Classes can be like a guradsman to a termie.. you decide.. :P
But the stronger classes can be locked from start and unlocked by TEAMPOINTS (NOT individual points!!!!!!!!) and limited so only a few players can choose them.
But the weaker classes might get some better gear to even it out.
(teampoints might be aquierd like in rs1 but added whole teams points together)

! :)

Just use the current RS system. The better the player is with kills and points he should be able to unlock classes and weapons. But he may get more powerful but his spawns are limited unlike a normal marine where they can run into battle, cause damage, die, comeback.

I like the nids Idea but with the AI and antlion type things dose this mean it will be player controlled? I hope so :D

well no terminators at all ??? :cry:  :cry:  :cry:
i always loved terminators in rs 1
how about making the old system but the "uberclasses" only lasts until the player dies and takes MUCH points, so it gets a real prestige choice?

No matter how a hero/terminator point system is made, you should not be able to gather slot points while playing as termie.
That should ensure noone stays in heavy armor all game.
I think the guardsmen have been pretty much denied player status in the previous discussion.
Better gear for weaker classes? NO, don't fit 40k universe. The only way to balance this is that everyone is either a sargent, devastator or terminator, which means no tactical marines at all...  :x
I can't really see the point in having slots unlocked by team points, it will only lead to the leading team gaining a huge advantage. I think it should either be unlocked in time, or by compleating objectives (clearing road for rhino transports, open gate etc.).


Well, people perfere to write on an existing topic istead of starting a new one.

what I think about the tactical squad is this:
every class should have a "power".
Let me explain:
let's suppose we've got a captain, a chaplain, an apothecary and some basic marines.
The health and armor rates would be the same for all classes.
The weapons' selection should be SIMILAR for all classes (for example: everyone can take the bolter gun, but only basic marines can take the flamer), but not the exact same.
Every class should have a special ability that's in no way stronger or weaker than the others: for example, the captain could have a "rally" ability to strenghten the attacks of the team members near him, the apothecary can heal his comrades, the basic marine can use special grenades and so on.
On paper, it's seems to me that the system would be balanced, and that every class would be useful for the entire squad.

Let me know what you think, hoping that I explained well what I wanted to say :D

that sounds quite good but maybe the basic marines ability cud be double rate of fire for 5-15 secs, this wud be good for when u in a drastic position but i needs  a cooldown of atleast a minute as the gun heats up rapidly

but even the "weaker" classes wield melta guns or such in our wh40k tabletop  :wink:

The problem is, of cause, that W40K is balanced by having units of different point values, meaning that they DO in fact have different power.
Also, many units are limited in numbers (1 HQ squad, 1 captain per squad, 3 special weapons per squad), so I don't think a free-for-all Battlefield class system would work.

But if only basic marines had grenades, it would balance the classes a bit.
I think there should be a number of special slots per team (like 1 captain, 2 apothecs, 3 special weapon). This would mean that a small team would stand a better chance against a larger team, as they have all their specials, and just lack a bit of basic marines. I have often experienced that a game have been ruined because half a team quits, and noone changes team.

yeah but still the same problem as discussed before:
with restricted slots the people with the fastest connection (often the hardcore gamers) will get the class they wanted without a chance for anybody else...

i think now after some time of thinking that the prestige solution would fit the best... costs are extreme and you dont get points while being a prestige class... so there could be terminator armours and such without getting the game out of balance because when he dies he probably wont be able to get one the next few hours of gaming...

Perhaps the "extreme prestige" solution is the best. But a new problem arrives: If a round consists of 15 min. of gameplay, and it takes hours to get a Terminator suit, you'll end up having teams winning rounds just because they had three players in terminator armor that round. Or maybe termies won't be that heavy, but I dislike the idea of having the teams power shift from round to round.
In theory, both teams should be equally powerful, all rounds. Therefor people shouldn't carry "rewards" from round to round.

Now for the good thing about the "extreme prestige" solution: We can have the frequency of classes exactly as in the board game!  :D
Say a player can have a special weapon in about 1 of 4 lives, be a sergent in 1 of 10 lives and terminator or caplain in 1 of 20.

yes but the tyranids will have their big creatures to, ill admit it now that when im playin RS2 i dont wanna run into a carny or a lictor, carni is big and strong, lictors are kinda scary ^^

i have always been in favour of the "make everything have equal killing power" thing.  this way you can choose whatever team/class/weapon you like the most and still be able to kill things.  

The best example of this is in games like DoD where you can use any weapon you like and even though they are all different, there is not one that rules the battlefield.  what got old for me with RS on HL1 was that there was a real "paper, scissor, stone" style of gameplay; bolter beats a lasgun, heavy bolter beats a bolter, etc.  

basically you knew you were going to die if they have a better weapon  :(

but thats the same in the reality...
if u have a vulcan machine gun u have a much bigger chance against somebody with stones and sticks.  :wink:

well i would like to see terminators and all that stuff if nids really get carnifexes, tyrants and zoantrophes :-D

from what i know, nids will be having zoanthropes, lictos, warriors and carnys for the big guys, and i wreckon the marines ARNT going to get termys, so its kinda pushing teamplay for marine players, no lone wolf stuff, lone wolves get scared and killed by lictors ^^

yes, but it does not stop the guy with the stick running up behind him and hitting the guy with the vulcan machine gun over the head with a rock!

all i mean is that it everything should have the potential to kill anything else!  using DoD again as an example, you can have a guy in a bunker with a mg42 blazing, then someone manages to shoot him with a rifle and takes him down.  the machine gun is by far the more powerful weapon but it is not imposible to displace them or take out the owner just as easily as someone weilding a shovel!  actually i have seen plenty of people with machine guns shoveled!  :P

in RS1 it was more like: a space marine will OWN an eldar guardian, no matter how many times you throw them at him!  but it is possible for a lasgun to kill a marine in one shot on the TT!

hope this clears up what i meant  :)

Back to the actual suggestions for gameplay:

I guess we all want the SM to stay together in units of 2-6 players. They should move out quite slowly while staying together and looking for the enemy. One in sight of the enemy, they should take up the most favourable cover, or charge in group, if they are assault troops.

The nids should just swarm over the place, the melee troops not caring about cover, while the ranged ones provide covering fire.
Lictors should of cause be smarter, using stealth, and the real long-ranged 'Nisd should also try to stay back, in cover, out of sight.

And now for the fun part: To suggestions on how to create that gameplay  :D
I think SM should have relatively small clips, and long loading time. That would force people to take cover, and stay in teams, just like CS. Oppositely, Tyranids should either have unending ammo, or very large clips, more like Unreal Tournament weapons.

(thinking of more suggestions)

id just like to say 30 round clip for bolter is suitable, also wanna make a suggestion on lictors, these mofo's are gonna have to be scary, coz if TT was real u wudnt want to meet a lictor, also i read a story where the lictor saw 2 guard thru a wall, so if they have alimited thermal vision that cud be ok, also speical ability wud have to make them blend in with surroundings, predator style, as long as they stay next to wall so they have something to blend with, if a marine goes stray and the lictors on the hunt, u wnt see that marine again until u find his body in several bits

Or better, improved hearing!
Anyone tried Dystopia? An implant makes you "see" sounds on your screen, red sound icons are for footsteps from enemies, grey for neutral or weapon sounds, friendlies don't show up.
And for the camouflage, try make it like the Hidden:Source, but of cause a lot less powerfull. The hidden one shows up as a blur.

id agree with a 30 round bolter, it sticks with the fluff and gives you a good shot chance at lasting more then a few seconds.

With the lictor i would have them blend in only when they are still, maybe not so predator style because that is near totally invisible, just changing colour to convincingly blend in with the suroundings.  but yeah they should still scare the hell outa people if possible  :P

id say space marine squads up to 10, seeing as that is the max you can have in a squad.

personally though i think lictors should get very little benifit for being out in the open. They are supposed to spring from cover and stuff.

I don't know how many people the source engine can realisticly manage in the same game, but I'm afraid an optimal squad size of 10 would make the SM team having just 1 team in most games. And just one theam wouldn't be able to both defend an objective and assault the enemy base at the same time.
To have just two teams of 10 marines you would need 20 people + 6 on the Tyranid team = 26 people online at the server. I would aim for 6-8 people in a squad.

Regarding squads, I got an idea. What about making people choose which squad they want to be in? Each squad have a leader that all members of the squad can see through walls (like NS hivesight), making it easier to stick together, and get back to the squad if you die.
The squad leader could also choose which ones get to have the special weapons, people should of cause be able to vote for a new leader.

we have had talk of voting for team/squad leaders before and came to the conclusion that it wouldnt work out.  also the leader assigning weapons to people would result in the leaders favorite players getting all the good equipment, and the rest not seeing anything more then a bolter.

i dont see anything wrong with having squad sizes of 10, there can always be less, and the source engine can support way more then 26 players.

the 6 players on the tyranid team is assuming that the synapse mode is chosen and uses the 3 marines to 1 warrior and 2 gaunts system.  i think that untill we have found a way to balance the sides, we wont actually have a good idea of what squad sizes are needed for either side

a suggestion about bolters... wouldnt it be fluffy if a bolter ist much stronger but goes like boom........boom........boom and not like boom...boom...boom...boom like in rs1 except u have fireburst?

u want a firewarrior version ^^

In each and every battle scene painting I've seen, it looks like the SM are firering in burst mode or full auto, not single fire.

no sorry i think firewarrior sucked  :x

i just thought about how i would wield such a big weapon, that is almost a rocketlauncher and that fires imploding rounds  :wink:
i think it would be smarter to aim than just go like "dakka dakka i hav da big waponz"
also marines are super humans with super reflexes (compared to ours) and should be able to kill quiet a few nids with single fire... my 2 cents :wink:

well from all the info i've seen oer the years bolter can fire in single round and burst, and are basically hand held rocket launchers but it takes about 2 seconds for the explosive fuse in the shell to activate so if you're hit between that time its like a normal bullet, and furthur more the shells are caseless.

you cannot possibly remove one of the few spraying weapons of 40k! leave the burst mode in, but make it kick the sights a lot.

I say burst mode.
After all, the bolter is supposed to be a mid-range weapon.
It really shouldn't be efficient at long ranges, leave that to the lascannons and rockets.

New suggestion: Dodge move.
As seen in "the specialists" HL mod, or in the Max Payne games. The player throws himself to the ground in one direction, to advoid attacks.
I think it would spice up the close-combat, if a Marine throws himself to the ground to gain an extra second of shooting at the 'Nid. But as he hits the ground he is trapped, it will take him about two seconds to get to his feet, to seconds that his enemy are not about to give him...  :twisted:
The throw/dodge move could also be used by assault units, both Tyranid and Marine. The warrior advances straight at the shooting marine, dives below his spraying bolter and chops off his legs...  :twisted:

someone has been playing a bit to much of the specialists or max payne methinks  :wink:

as for the bolter, everywhere i have read that it is a semi automatic weapon with a burst mode.  so in semi automatic 1 shot is fired per pull of the trigger and in burst mode 3 shots.  because we are using a sickle clip, it means it should have a max of 30 rounds per clip.  also it does not have a huge ROF.

for more info http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bolter

It sounds great, but I think it's beneath a Space marines dignity to throw themselves onto the floor. on the other hand space marines are smart, they will do whatever is needed to acheive thier objective... so they may indeed throw themselves backwards to get out of the claws of a gribly, and perhaps have them get up like in DoW, leaping up from the ground.

I don't like the idea of "istant covering" for Marines... the Black Templars, for example, never go into cover (but they've got a saving throw eheh).
Maybe a fast get up from a prone position would be better. But this could be the "special ability" of the basic marine...