40K Source

I'm trying to plan ahead for the marine's HUD.  Here's what i've come up with so far :

(http://www.chromeangel.co.uk/Exterminatus/ex_HUD_mockup.jpg)

it's just a vey rough mockup so far.  Personally I think it's taking up too much  screen space.  What do you think?

Feel free to post your own HUD mockups.

you could make it so you can choose what you want displayed. Maybe you could use the + and - keys. +adds more of the HUD -Reduces the amount.

That's doable.  How many steps do you think it would need?  What elements would you have at each step?

personally this frame style hud makes me feel clostraphobic and clutters up the screen.  personally i would perfer to see a much more simplified one that doesnt get in the way

yea there is too much hud, games with alot of hud tend to put me of playing them, u cud have the text emssages pop up in hte middle of ur screen and have the kills/deaths the same as RS1 & maybe have the vertical flood br for health and ammo smaller and together on the elft hand side (left hand side because fun will take up the right side)

I've updated the mockup to reflect Raz's feedback.  The plan is for the light grey areas to fade in/out depending if they are in-use or not.

thats alot better

personally im not found of anything being in the middle portion of the screen. I would rather see them put out of the way at the bottom of the screen as not to obscure the side of the screen and what may be a incoming nasty.

You could make some of it semi transparant maybe

Hmm nice concept but this for a marine or a guardsmen cause if it is a Marine maybe u should have it more of a helment HDD

What might that look like?

Yeah.. for a marine you could make the inside of the helmet visible and draw the hud on that..
That way it will be more realistic cos all the info is on the helmet :)

I think they have it like that in starwars republic commando, very niceley done imo.


To the "text in the center of screen" thing... I say, NO WAY!!! Never ever!

My original concept had a visor-like frame around it, I would agree with Raz that felt rather restrictive.

As for centre text, I dont want anything getting between me and my target  :twisted:

New concept

(http://www.chromeangel.co.uk/Exterminatus/ex_HUD_mockup3.jpg)

Hm, that looks a bit to cluttered. less the weapon select menu only appears when you scroll through weapons.

hey, the second one resembles really an helmet... maybe as somebody posted before, you could really draw an helmet-like interface, just as it is in Star Wars Republic Commando (the helmet-feeling was great and the field of view was big and clear). You could try to add something at the edges of the screen.. like here: http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swrepubliccommando/hud.html

As you can see, the helmet-feeling is good, and the field of view is ok. You have the same elements in the game.
I personally would use much smaller slots for the weapons schematic images.

The second one was inspired by the SWRC screenies ;)  and yes the weapon slots would only be there when you're making a selection.

ah, I think that they're ok so.

The health bar is using a lot of space.

For a marine, with his intelligent armor, a simple health-point counter in percent would be better. A counter for bullets could also be simple numbers, if the info don't display on the weapons (like the rocket-launcher in Unreal).
I assume that the marine have more HUD information than any other player/race, f.x. scanner readings, atmosphaeric analyses, objectives and shiny lights :wink: .

A guardsman have no advanced monitoring system, and have to rely on feeling the pain. So a human figure that are getting more red with damage (like in Max Payne) could be a nice solution.
The bullets could be drawn on-screen, in the other side.

Health is very important, I think it deserves that much space. You cant do much without it ;)  The eagle wings could be a a bit slimmer though.

I would like to keep the floor bar style, I think it's more intuative than numerals.  That said i'm not sure what effect the triangular shape will have.  Numerals on the other hand would take up less screen space.  I would like to keep the HUD un-cluttered.

I'm planning on having a menu screen the player can call up, like the scoreboard, only with his personal stats on it, for things that are used infrequently.  I'd put scanner stuff, the bells and whistles on there.

The human figure for showing health is a good idea, it would work as well for marines as it would for guard.  While I could code a different HUD for Guard it seems like duplicate effort that could be spent in other areas.

reduse the size of the weapon imiges

weapon imiges dont have to be so large

Darknar, read before posting! the weapon images will be "big" only when selecting weapons.

i did read i as i say the weapon imiges dont have to be big at all. if there that big i wont be able to see the enemy in front of me becasue the weapon imige is in the way. if they are the quater of the size they are still see able and are not obstructive.


and i really hate it when people say



the only time i dont read before posting is when the topic is about 40 pages long. and even then i dont post because im not part of the convosation.

i jhave read it and i just think the weapon imiges dont have to be that big. yes the selected weapon can be bigger maby 15% bigger than the normal pictures but not that big

i like these. could more information pop up when certain buttons are pressed? like the screen of a Spacemarine Auspex, working in a similar way to the Scouter in ESF for HL1?

I dont know.  I havent tried ESF.  What is it?  Some kind of radar?

Couldn't the Health and Ammo just be displayed by numbers?  That would take up less space, methinks.

-Prok

Health 'n' ammo as numbers - already suggested.
I think it would be too boring.

having played another 40k mod today for UT2004 which uses a hud systm with  good chunk of stuff to the sides i would like to say i found it highly annoying.

It felt like my view was being obscured as most things come in from the sides.

My feling is that redusing everythin to the top and the bottom of the screen would be a more comfertable thin, either that or do the shrinkable thing that was mentined earlier so someone like me could clear the sides.

screenshot:
http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/48/48/gallery/water_34625.jpg

the green thing on the right side. shows where enemies are and so on.

the good old scouter :D it would be a great idea.

offtopic:
Hey i´m back under the living  :mrgreen:

ontopic:
Hey, guys! I would suggest to make the Hud for Imperials very simple. I mean theirs combat-vest and helmet techniques are advanced, but not like the ones of others.
I think it would be fine if u just have a small hud for imperials at the edges. It would be some kind of sight bonus for these simple warriors.
Other guys like the Space Marines should get a more limited field of view
(not taking too much away but somebody for example in the right corner of the sight couldnt be seen). I know its not that big as a malus but sometimes its better to see more  :wink:
Marines could have for example battleinformation running on the right side with a small map or something which shows their brethrens (all transparent of course).
Well i dunno maybe i was of some help  :wink:

I suggest u drop the spawn timer and replace it with a Auspex and have one model on the team with it so Team play in enforced abit, also it would make some interesting scenaro's.

Also i suggest with the ammo just have a ammo counter and a noise goes off when low on ammo (to represent that the gun and the suit are linked together)

The suit and the gun is actually not linked together for Space Marines.

They are for Tyranids, though.

heavy bolters are linked to a special backpack, dunno if that counts as the SM tho ^^

Hmm good point then remove it from the hud and put it on the gun, more "realistic" also would create a atmosphere with people just spraying and hearing *CLICK CLICK* with a hormaguant running at them.

Hehe, yeah. For the Imperial guards, las rifles/pistols have little hud counters actually on them, done they? Would save a lot of HUD space...

why bothering with that damned IG (I wonder why do you like them so much! :P ) when we doesn't even know if they'll be playable (hopefully not!)?

Well for Marine just drop the ammo part of the hud and relay on the ammo counter on the gun

Just because they suck doesnt mean you cant like them....lol

it's not my personal preference (yeah, I don't like IG), but why spend time and energy onto something that we doesn't even know if will be playable?

Just because something goes against your personal preferences, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game.  There's nothing wrong with adding more content.   Besides, I think it's guaranteed that the majority of time and resources will be spent on the Space Marines and Tyranids.  Hey, I hate Space Marines (I'd rather have a challenge instead of pwning everything with my ceramic-digesting organs and whatever else they have), but I'm not going to crush other people's hopes.

That said, I read somewhere that it'll be unlikely that the Guardsmen are playable, although they might play parts as NPC's.

Getting back on topic, having the ammo counter on certain guns would be a very cool feature, if it is possible.

I am pretty sure it is possible to do, hey Dystopia even had a cam-screen on the rocket launcher, so a simple counter should not be a problem.

The problem is whether a counter would live up to the fluff, as always.

 :idea:  Maybe it would be better to position the bolter so that the magazine is visible.
Most bolters have 'open' magazines, where the bullets are visible, and you would be able to count your ammo.
I think it would be a very cool effect, too.   :)

I am no expert,
but I know for a fact that you can use rendertargets as textures in the HL2 engine, therefore a VGUI system to display an ammo counter or a live videostream are technically possible.

In my take on the 40K background, however, bolters do not have an ammo counter. The Marines do have a HUD, though, and I believe that to be the appropriate place for an ammo counter.

I didn't say that. I did say that there it's not certain that the IG will be playable, as Chrome said.

For the HUD, I think there should be "suit warnings" like in HL2.
I guess some of the Tyranid weapons would trigger an acid/toxic/biohazard alert.
Also there could be transmissions = objectives showing up once in a while.

Remember that the Marine Armoursuit has inbuild oxygen recycling, so marines will be able to swim for hours before drowning, as well as fighting in vaccum.
Maybe we could make some interresting underwater scenarios...  :wink:

I still like my ammo idea. It's the fluff-perfect solution, as you are actually able to count the bullets in the mag on most marine pictures.
And the helmet is not in any way connected to the bolter, so it wouldn't have the ammo info on the helmet HUD.

the bolter is connected to the armour which is connected to the helmet and the marines sences. The palm of the marines hand has a connection to the bolter which allows this connection as well as acting as a "finger print scanner" which is supposed to limit who can use it.

Bolters do not have counters on them, they dont need them for a reason which is that the ammo status is displayed in the hud.

Although technically its more a overlay on their sight than a hud.

I like the first pic :P

Hmm... I can't remember having ever read anything in the fluff about a suit-gun connection through the palm  :?

But then again, I have not read every single novel or codex, so I guess you're right...

it was in a white dwarf at some point about marine equipment and how it works, was slightly older fulff now.

basically marine gear is actually massivly oversized compared to a normal imperial citizen and highly specilised.

eh... sorry but what the hell is that counter-like thingy on the side of all bolters with a triangle ? i always thought of it as a counter

The ammo bar should be Nurmeric.

for me i would like to see it switch, so if your using a fun with fuel such as a flamer or melta it looks liek it does just now, and when your running a bullet weapon it is numeric, but ill bet thats a pain to do and would hurt chromes head.

Yes, but then it's fortunate that not every feature has to be in the first beta release.
Fancy features are just what updates are for (and for balancing, of cause)

An ideas on how sprinting stmaina and drowning/breath should be displayed on the Imperial HUD?

well spacemarines should not drown at all, as they have a airsupply.

they should however sink like a brick.

aye, but when sink, they can walk across the sea bed?

yes, some totally underwater action would be cool.

apparently nids also have the ability to breathe underwater as in the tales of invasions they tend to land ion the ocean and walk out.

Two very good points I had not considdered.  Neither team can drown.

OK.  The question still remains, but relating just to sprinting (and jumping maybe) stamina.

perhaps just a approperately shapped bar to one side, there not much you can do with this one i think. No fluff about how stamina is delt with.

ooooo a water battle, some sort of outpost in a sea, it goes deep into the ocean, nids trying to break in and destroy from the ocean, "THE HULL IS BREACHED!", water flood the bottom decks while the marines retreat to upper levels being persuited by nids

You been watching Titanic again? :P

ermm noo  :oops: ,nah i ent really but i spose its similar, Jack is the sergeant, the iceberg is the Carni ^^

"Carni right ahead!"
"Hard to- wait what?"

hehehe.

had to post, it made me laugh.

as for the hud thing, you could have the bar below the triangle bits in a different colour.

Yeah, underwater action would be cool.
I don't know if the SM thrusters for space-fighting in vaccum without gravity are strong enough to propel them through water, if not the SM would just walk slowly on the bottom, as the suit is way too heavy to swim with.

Bolters are not pistols, they are actually small rocket launchers, as each bolt has it's own rocket propolution. That means that it can be firered underwater, but I don't think meltaguns would work under water, and certainly not flamers.

Tyranids should be slowed down under water, but not much, and they have the advantage of being able to swim, not just walk on bottom. So water levels would give an advantage to Tyranids, but not a huge one.

I guess it's possible to make the water level rise slowly, would be a cool event to have in a map.

No, 'cause your body tells you when you are tired, you don't really need fancy equipment for that.
Both Tyranids and SM are supposed to have superior physicts to normal humans, so I really wouldn't miss a stamina system, as they would seldom be exhausted. An elegant way to implement it would be to have breathing sounds that gets heavier and faster the more stamina you use.
And we could make it so that the other players can hear your breathing too - making it easier to set up ambushes.

Breathing sounds is a good idea. Or that "Auxillary Power" thing, that tries to combad the lactic acid that your muscles create when they are under-oxydated.
A stamina bar is generally evil, and i would rather not see it. A marine or a nid are both crated to fight, not become tired. Hence, in a battle that lasts 20 minutes (you will change maps after that!) stamina should not be affected.

I would say just leave stamina out of it, neither a marine or a nid is likely to get exhausted fast.

marines can probaly go 100's of years without resting, they are designed for war, they dnt even need sleep, they just do it because it helps them work more efficiently

Gameplay-wise i'd like everyone to be able to jump a bit and sprint occasionaly, but NOT to bunny hop all the time or use sprint continuesly (which is what you can get if you dont give them some kind of stamina).

I suppose we could just hurt them a little, if they jump too much or sprint too long  :twisted:

hurting works, slighly better than the old RS system where you just stopped after the stamina ran out.

perhaps a bar for stamina that you can use and once it runs out it cuts into your health, ths if you really really need to run, you can continue at the cost of your health.

That's even worse than regular stamina  :shock:

Believe it or not, but Space Marines are NOT McDonalds addicts that gets heart attacks when jumping more than 2 times in a row, or running for a few minutes.
They are superhuman athletes, with a servo-armor to enchance their strenght AND endurance.  :evil:

For bunnyhopping, I would say shake the accuracy so much that it's becomes useless for SM and the smaller shooting 'Nids.
If meele Tyranids can evade by hopping, fine with me, should be easy enough to balance. The Warriors, Tyrant and Carnifex should not be able to fast-jump, make it so that they stand still for 2 sec to gather their strength before a jump. It is hard to jump when you are a big creature, actually elephant's don't jump at all.

As for sprint, it would be realistic to shake the accuracy a few secs after stopping too, and adding tell-tale footstep sounds would discourage people from using it all the time.

well i read from codex (or was it in the rulebook)  that marines can fight for about half a year for no sleeping and eating.



in imperial guard codex there is a text about "promethium"(not sure about the name) and it says that  this promethium which is used in flamers keeps burning even underwater.

and now for this hud thing. i think that dc intro video is the best hud.

the issue with it is that this is a FPS game, you cant have all the fluff working cos it messes up the game balance.

shame really, but sometimes we have to screw things to get it to work

The text messages should be in the lower third/quarter of the screen. The weapons could then be in the top left. I also think the  triangular health bars etc. shouldnt be quite as high as they are. apart from that i think its really good. The simpler it is the better to avoid distraction but at that a good hud can also make gamplay better.

although in saying all of this, we recently saw an actualy space marines internal view on the Dark Crusade intro movie, and i know chrome has got a hankering to do somethign like it.

great, because that looks awesome.... even better if you guys of the devteam can handle to produce a similar enemy tracking effect :D

We could but tracking would probably be too effective in-game and unbalance it.  If we did a single player or coop verison later on it would be cool to have.

Watching the DC HUD in hi-res you can see the entire bottom of the screen is  taken up  by a mere compass,  not good use of screen space.

The digital scribble on the left hand side was un-intelligible letters and numbers to  me, it could have the heath/armor and ammo counts in there somewhere, but you wouldnt be able to keep track of it.

Just about the only usable part was the cool crosshair and prehaps the scanline effect.  :(

well, the scanline is good.
Does the compass act as a radar also?

indeally yes, compass overlay and CnC style tracking (mearly a box arround your target when its in full view and close enough) would be what we would want.

although were still designing it so