40K Source

The map is going to based in a city, so thats were i have got the temporary name from not much to show but i thought I would show you what I have got so far:

(http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/8809/ruin40k10000zy7.th.jpg) (http://img489.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ruin40k10000zy7.jpg)

Welcome to the EX forum.  A good start there, i'm pleased to see another city map in the works.  Can I suggest some tweaks?  

Their are some good broken floor props among the standard HL2 models, perhaps those could be used to give a more broken look to the edges of the floors.  Use of the rebar props could be improved by adjusting their heights and rotations, so it's not so obviously the same thing repeated.

Thanks for the tips will make some changes and post up what I get.

mmm nice, im currently building something im calling Ex_breach which runs along a similar theme (big city fight).

would you be interested in doing a bit of a colaboration on it?

my current sketch plan:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l320/typheron/ex_breach.jpg

and as far as i have got since i started at the weekend, mainly boxing it out to see how it will work, its been expanded a bit to make it slighty laterger for all those nids to wander about in:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l320/typheron/map_1.jpg

I was just wondering could someone exsplain the flow of the game is it like dod were each team have to capture all the flags or what, so that I can plan out my map to run better.

I will have to have a think about the colab because I have not been mapping for too long and I'm only really getting used to hammer I would not want to hinder your progress.

nice work

Good to see you took my advice over on 'lopers.

Thanks for all of your comments. Just a quick update I have started work on the ruin at the other end of the building:

(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4660/excityfight040003po8.th.jpg) (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfight040003po8.jpg)

Also a few shots of what I have been doing with the rest of the ruin, just a few tweaks, changing the rebars up a bit and trying to get the 2nd floor looking good:

(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2253/excityfight040002vv8.th.jpg) (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfight040002vv8.jpg)
(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3918/excityfight040000zx3.th.jpg) (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfight040000zx3.jpg)
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6821/excityfight040001cn0.th.jpg) (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfight040001cn0.jpg)

Ex works like DoD, locations have to be captured and held and then you move onto the next one.

spawns however occur on the captured locations with the drop ship flying in and allowing you to spawn.

thanks i guessed that, i just didn't want to plan a map around that and it end up being different.

it can be done differently i think if you change the nature of the ovjectives. Chromeangel was talking about asigning them to things like distroy objectives which would be a perminant capturing of the area.

I think theres some flexability in how it works, the area cap is definatly defalt setting.

The idea was always to progress the teams spawns to their last objective.   How those objectives are achieved is up to the mapper.  In the sample maps  I used a button as this was the simplest entity arrangement and provided the most direct user response.  

For a full blown map objective a more sophisticated arrangement of entities could be used, so that set of player tasks needed to be completed, opening doors, going places, blowing stuff up, timers, anything could be used to trigger the objective.

This is where the ex_mission comes in, because an objective could be archived with just about anything, you need to tell the players what they are supposed to be doing and ex_mission lets you specify this.

awww cool thanks alot. I get what is going on now, just a last question can the objectives change hands once they have been captured or are they fixed?

it depends on how you deal with them, but currently all the test maps simply use switches whihc can be toggled to one team or the other (defult state is neutral).

so yes.

I have had a go at doing a torn down wall, I have also just added a few more details like a floor to the long section:

(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/581/excityfight070000hh4.th.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfight070000hh4.jpg)
(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5453/excityfight070001ej5.th.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfight070001ej5.jpg)
(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/749/excityfight070002bx0.th.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfight070002bx0.jpg)
(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8627/excityfight070003qq9.th.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfight070003qq9.jpg)
(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3434/excityfight070004oz7.th.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfight070004oz7.jpg)
(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9783/excityfight070005wt6.th.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfight070005wt6.jpg)
(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2069/excityfight070006rc4.th.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfight070006rc4.jpg)

I have finished the layout for the map:

(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3416/excityfightlayoutest000my4.th.jpg) (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excityfightlayoutest000my4.jpg)

1: space marines 1st spawn.
2:power station that the nids need to destroy this to open the doors to the church
3:church if the nids pass the door to the church the space marines lose, also the space marines 3rd spawn
4:entrance to city, nids need to pass this point to push  the space marines back
5:nids 1st spawn will be outside the city
6:space marines 2nd spawn, they will be pushed back here once the nids have entered the city boundaries.

so what do you think then? and also will this be possible?

looking good, although remeber a thunderhawk needs a very large space to land in beside a spawn location.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpiBGM3WN_Y

it also needs a good run up to said location so that its landing does not look odd.

yes well the spawn zones will be in really ruined building or open spaces.

edit i have been messing around trying to get the thunder to land and it looks like it catches on something but there is nothing there. here is a link a demo file i made of what happens:

http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=other&file=wtf.dem

as far as I can find out its nothing to do with my map because it happens on the tut maps.

uh, we'd need a copy of your map in order to watch that demo ;)

Dropships are pretty dumb and probably wont be getting much smarter.  You can improve their behaviour by refining their paths with more ex_dropship_path entities , telling them to change speed or turn more gradually.  The dropzone in Typeron's video uses 6 ex_dropship_paths (including the lead in and lead out) and could still use more to make them land more smoothly.

oh write see I just copyed the one from the tut to try it out, see if it would land.

www.fraps.com - always you to vid things in games. May be worth a look.

thanks will have to download it

the file you end up form the vid will be huge, ill get youo a link to a compressor for it when i get back home. (curse this job things!)

Just a tiny update, started to work a another building because im running out of ideas for the ruin so im going to leave it for a bit, anyway here is what I have come up with so far:

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9949/builing30000zy8.th.jpg) (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=builing30000zy8.jpg)

From experience I would say fancy gothic windows are best handled with prop models than with brushes, try the arches in the MDKs models/props folder.

sorry about the slow responce on this one, busy last night but:

http://www.virtualdub.org/

that will give you a bit of free kit that allows conversion and compresion of video files so you can put them up on the net (i use dvix codec myself).

http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l320/typheron/?action=view&current=40kchurch.jpg

and thats a shrine/church from the 2nd ed SoB codex for inspiration. Ill have to remove it fairly soon from my album so either save a copy or have a good look.

they were too big for what I wanted so I tried to make my own.

and thanks for the pic its saved on my pc so you can take it down when ever you want.

Let me know what size you're after and I can scale them.

thanks alot. I need them 32 hammer units wide, 66 high and 16 thick or as close to it with out stretching it out of preposition.

That's all I needed to know.   Sorry it's taking so long to find time to do this.  I hope you wont let this hold up progress on city fight.

no I am on a break with it at the moment because I have mappers block with it so i messing around in half life 2 for a bit,  will get back to it soon though

well if you need a hand let us know, right now outside of the team your map is the one thats looking the most complete.

sadly most people without the mod to play it in yet lose interest and go silent.

I don't really need any help at the moment, I have just been working on the map too much, I worked on it this week end constantly basic as soon as I got up until i went asleep, i decided to give it a rest.

Ah, thats more work than ive done recentlyand im dev team.

lol well I think i have too much free time.

sorry for not updating lately I download insurgency, I just couldn't put it down, but now I have come back to my map and started to work on the church:

(http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/6783/40kchurch30000bb4.th.jpg) (http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch30000bb4.jpg)
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1682/40kchurch30001id3.th.jpg) (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch30001id3.jpg)
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3215/40kchurch30002mi6.th.jpg) (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch30002mi6.jpg)
(http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/4027/40kchurch30003kn6.th.jpg) (http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch30003kn6.jpg)
(http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/3972/40kchurch30004cm0.th.jpg) (http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch30004cm0.jpg)

Nice looking church there!

I've scaled down the arched window props, the glass area should now fit the dimensions you specified.  You can get the small props from this link (http://www.40ksource.com/files/ex_small_arch.zip).

thanks for that.

just finished making a huge window for the back of the chuch:

(http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/9274/40kchurch80000uz0.th.jpg) (http://img484.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80000uz0.jpg)

also changed the front of the church a little bit:

(http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/873/40kchurch40000zt0.th.jpg) (http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch40000zt0.jpg)

nice, very nice!

I have now finished the inside of the church and I have textured the whole thing so here is some screenshots:

(http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/9628/40kchurch80000id2.th.jpg) (http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80000id2.jpg)
(http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/8971/40kchurch80002ac1.th.jpg) (http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80002ac1.jpg)
(http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6417/40kchurch80003io2.th.jpg) (http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80003io2.jpg)
(http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5462/40kchurch80004tz1.th.jpg) (http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80004tz1.jpg)

i cant wait to kill bugs in that place, The Emperor Protects.

I have just finished creating a stain glass texture for the windows:

(http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/1715/40kchurch80005yl9.th.jpg) (http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80005yl9.jpg)

I have also added some monitors to the pillars:

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1015/40kchurch80006ff0.th.jpg) (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80006ff0.jpg)

i really like wot uve done :)
my only question is size? is this big enough for most if not all nid classes to get in?

i really don't know. to be honest. because theres no models with the mdk.

edit:

just a quick update, just a quick texture change:
(http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/656/40kchurch80007su9.th.jpg) (http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80007su9.jpg)
(http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/6815/40kchurch80008hs3.th.jpg) (http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80008hs3.jpg)

Coming along their Vault  :D  Looking much better with the new textures.  Nice work on the stained glass.

As a guideline for tyranid sizes, the ex_dropzone entity was designed to be as large as as a carnifex with a brood of termagaunts.  Most Tyranid players wont be quite that big, but they do need more room to move than the guardsmen of the MDK.

If it's not too late the side windows might look more churchy of they were double height, rather than one window above the other.

Using a different stone texture along the bottom of walls and pilers gives a more realistic effect as seen here (http://www.40ksource.com/fullview.php?image=Alpha%20Testing/KnifeInGame.jpg).

  This Shot (http://www.40ksource.com/fullview.php?image=Alpha%20Testing/alpha_brood.jpg) shows another trick, adding thicker brick columns built into the walls also adds to the realism, the walls of your church seems a little bit thin to be needing flying buttresses.

so do you think the door will be big enough for most nids to get into? also by the fly buttresses do you mean the bits on the side?

edit:

just a quick few sceenshots of a few changes i have made:

(http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/6780/40kchurch80009zx1.th.jpg) (http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80009zx1.jpg)
(http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/8492/40kchurch80010xy5.th.jpg) (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80010xy5.jpg)
(http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/996/40kchurch80011ua3.th.jpg) (http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch80011ua3.jpg)

The freestanding pillers, connected by a horizontal bar as seen here (http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40kchurch30004cm0.jpg) are known as "flying buttresses".  I now notice that you've removed them from more recent versions.

Yes, I expect all the nids to be able to get though the big doors, just the isle down the middle and between the pews was looking too narrow.

Regards your latest texturing I think I preferred the interior painted then metal, just my preference though.  Dark lighting with dramatic spot lighting could do the job of that dark texture just as well.

it shoudl be noted that flying butresses are used extensivly to keep arched roofs together in gothic architecture and generally anywhere you find arched or barrel vault roofs made of stone.

that degree came in handy.

Well that was worth 3 years of tuition fees  :P

the nids only have to get inside the church to win so getting down the isle is not needed for the nids.

Try 8...

The painted inside walls looked better than metal to me as well. Good job anyway.

I have decided not to continue making this map for the ex mod, there are too many limitations on the mapping for a novice like myself.  i would like to consecrate on making a good map for my first map, but i will conceder making another map for this mod in the future. if you would to to keep track of this map you can check it out over here:

http://www.interlopers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18471

Awee nuts  :cry:

I can see your point though :oops:

Agreed, there are many restrictions and it does make it difficult to create balanced maps. What works for one team doesn't necessarily work for others. I believe there are ways both parties can work around this though (mappers and coders).

For ex_mire, the map I'm working on, the team differences are emphasized. Tyranids are forced down one path while SM are forced down another, though both are interwoven with one another and there's no way you'll miss your enemy being right in front of you. Create ways around the problem. If the church entrance is too small, smash a hole in the wall. Just an example of course. Maybe the players themselves can even destroy parts of the scenery to allow larger Tyranids through.

As for coders, will the larger Tyranids be able to crouch? I'm finding that wide entrances is fine but low ceilings is more of a problem. I can't begin to describe how scary it would be to see a Carnifex at your door, thinking you're safe because it can't fit in, only to see it drop to all fours and crawl through to get at you. A similar effect to Striders from HL2 crouching?

all nids can duck and move along, so not a issue.

Al;so there nids, just have them break the roof

Approximately how tall is the tallest unit when stood/crouched?

about the height of a space marine, although it varies as some are bigger than others

So as far as height is concerned I only need to make doorways tall enough for SMs and then everyone can get through?

roughly yes, aolthough remeber that the space marines stand considerably higher than a normal person.

I normall door height in Half Life 2 is about head level for a marine.

The average Space Marine is about 8ft tall and weighs 240lbs. I think...

remeber that those sizes are useless to a hammer map, since it works in "game" units which have very little connection to the outside world.

The tallest Tyranid is 224 units high when standing strait, all classes (so far) can fit through a gap 96 units high and 60 units wide when crouched (any smaller than that and the nids wont fit).  The carnifex may be wider I wont know until I get him animated and tested in-game.

Just to let everyone know, due to the high amount of problems being encountered during mapping with the thunderhawk and harpy were probably gonna drop them in favour of something simpler to allow easyer access by 3rd party mappers.

Do you mean just spawning or are vehicles stuill involved?

Just spawning, although its not been decided how its going to work.

the thunderhawk system is just too limiting for anything but huge maps, its shame and 2 weeks ago i was fighting to keep it but its just not workng out.

Maybe leave both options open.

cant, the spawn system is one of those things you can only have it one way mainly due to the way in which the thunderhawk system works right now. There cant be more than one spawn system or the entities get very upset.

More than that i cant say as we are just starting to look at how to change it and dont really know where its going to go yet.