40K Source

One of the four game modes shortlisted, by the team for Exterminatus - Rival Species 2 (a one week poll to settle this subject will start on January the seventh).

Exterminatus

++Full Mode Description (http://www.40ksource.com/mode.php?mode=tyranid/exterminatus)++

Closest of the four modes to the setting described in the earlier poll Exterminatus is the only cooperative mode shortlisted.  This means their is no player vs  player combat in this mode.  This is what I had in mind when I wrote the Setting.

Apologies for any confusion regarding the name (This is NOT final!), we couldn't think up a better dramatic name for it at the time :roll:

Questions?  Suggestions?

I quite like 'Exterminatus' always been one of my favorite 40k related words. Don't change it.

this is great but could represent a problem: it can be repetitive being an online game. But I'm unsure, it should be tested...

It would require some AI and programming to advoid it being repetive. Maybe if there were 5 possible spawn points for each Tyranid group.

Exterminatus = the best game mode in my opinion ^^ from what ive seen in the discussion in IRC, if this is chosen it will be a desperate struggle for marines, as they will be defending stuff like space ports while civs get away on T-hawks, at the end also getting one themself, by the time the marines T-hawk comes, the hole landing platoform cud be crawling with nids and the last few marines grouped together in the middle unleashing round after round and the nids closing in? will they be able to hold it?, if u wanna find out, then vote exterminatus ^^

we have thought quite alot about this one, and it is the biggest problem of a cooperative game.

our thoughts are that the main form of update would be to add new maps and missions for people to do.

there was also talk of a clan coop mode whereby 2 clans cooperate with each other by fighting in 2 squads.  in order to complete the objectives on the map they will need to work together, for example giving covering fire while the other clan works on completing an objective.  if the objective is completed then both squads gain points, however if one squad fails, points are deducted.  

this was just an idea of things we could do to first allow clans to compete together in a cooperative way, and secondly to try and prevent it from getting boring.  none of what i have said is set in stone, just ideas the dev team were throwing around

Clans are for competitions, so you'll need somewhere they can prove their worth.
What about giving points for objectives taken to the team whose player takes point. Also for frags. And give point for game time to both teams, (hold-out time for defence, points for fast time for assaults) so the rivaleries don't become too great.
Then a clan ladder might work out.

or, each member of the clan ahs 1 life, 2 clans, see which clan lasts the longest

could be, but that would not have the clans work together, they would just try to keep their own people alive.

exactly! the surviving clans wins the clan match

But that would spoil Razielks grand idea of having clans compete together in a cooperative way - I kind of liked that idea  :(

i think most people on IRC have heard my great plans ^^ im going to be stud upon many many ragdoll nid corpses making my last stand for the emperor

If you people vote for this mode on the 7th this is what you will get.

A future type coop mod where the AI do the same things over and over on the same maps.

An like the other coop mods for HL2 have only around 3 serves and 4 people play the game in 3 days.

This would make the mod old and repetitive. If the mod is player vs player "Synapse" not only do you have player nids controlling the AI but you also have diffrent games everytime instead of the AI doing the same old same old from what they were coded to do.

I also doubt that a coop play can be varied enough to attract hardcore-supporters. And a mod needs those.

It would, however, be a big plus if we got the option to fill a team (in Synapse mode) with bots, so fewer people are needed to play.

I completely agree.

ill admit that allthough i want to see this mode go through to do my last stand thing ^^ i will be voting synapse probaly
long talks in IRC bout dif things that cud happen jsut turned me around
plus synapse will win anyway

not necessarily, vote for what you want not what you think will win, you might be surprised  :wink:

From what i know, there are a few ways that we can make the AI not as predictable, taking different routes through the map, BIG nids coming in at random places, different mission objectives on the same map etc.

my clan idea provokes more competition as seen in actual squads in millitary forces, they are determind to out do each other even though they are on the same side!

aye i wud love to see exterminatus thru, but the masses want player nids, i jsut want 100's of targets myself

that would be amazing to see. i know everybody will play EX if a promo video with that is made :)

razielk, just throw me a hint on where to vote and EX will 100% get atleast my vote. cant say that playing AS a nid is much for me, spraying their guts on the wall however is something i like.

its easy people:

if you want to battle of hordes after hordes of bugz vote EXTERMINATUS, as the servers are more likely to be able to handle 100 bots than 40 realtime players without experiencing lag.

if you want to run around as a mindless gibbing bug then by all means vote on synapse ;)

BTW, if exterminatus goes through (or synapse for that part). talk to the rest razielk and ask if OX has a spot open for moi, and ill blast all bugz off yer back  :twisted:

so far there isnt a poll set up for the mode that will be used, we are just displaying them to let everyone give their opinions and thrash out any problems people can see in them.



well said :wink:
 
and yeah, i will put it to them  :)

As the Synapse discution is going right now, it seems more like 5 realtime players and 40 bots at the Tyranids side.
So you will have your bot-hunting.

perhaps. but synapse wont have that beautifull feeling of "stand-against-all-odds" like exterminatus. I may be a chaos fanatic, but i would just looooooove do kill of those mindless (yes tyranids are dumb, except hive mind and possibly tyrants :)) bugz, even as an imperial

I mean come on, picture it:
you arrive at the mission to read the text "assist local military" and try to fend off nidz at the front gate with IG. then you are ordered to fall back cause they breach it and you see guardsmen getting slaughtered while you fall back :D *dreewl*

the thing is that you'll have the same feeling with players AND ia. As I said in another thread, Exterminatus, in my opinion, has a great risk: to be boring in the long run.

There is one plan being conceved for Exterminus that i like a lot, tand thats having 2 squads in the game.

A mission would be a series of objectives split between the two squads who would each be on different "paths", so perhaps one running along the rooftops and one in the street.

They would be able to support each with covering fire while one squad completes an objective such as arming a bomb or holding a location while the other squad covers them. Say the bomb blows up a building, which falls over a street allowing the rooftop squad to progress. They then have to get into a building and open a gate for the street squad to move into the next area. At times they would be heading to different areas of the map to complete their objectives, additional points/rewards would be earned for the speed these objectives are completed compared to par times. The squad with the lower overall par time at the end of the map would come in first, and the other squad second.

Penilties would be given for deliberatly messing up the other squads progress or failing your objectives. Failing your objecties would mean that the other squad would have to complete a secondary objective which if failed would result in a mission fail.

The only way I see Exterminatus has a chance of surviving in the long run, is if it a defence mode.
Just like the Tower/Hero Defences in Warcraft III, you will have to defend against wave after wave of attackers, each wave stronger than the last. THEN there would be something to come back to, because you will want to beat your record. And the clans could compeate to be the ones to stay in game for the longest time.
For those playing Dystopia, this would be just as playing Corp, except there is no time limit, and the Punks gets stronger over time.

see it needs to be more than that., as the endless wave defence is boring in itself.

It needs to have several map types and a whole shitload of them to play on.

map types:
Defend - keep your ass alive for a set time
Attack - like the UT assult maps, a set piece attack on a location
Escourt - get that VIP to safety

Objectives - a combination of all of the above

It needs a lot of stuff to make it good, sure saying "yeh this will rock" is all fine and it probably will untill the 5th time your playing the same level doing the same things at which point its boring as hell.

Look at BrainBread, its a great game with some very invative things going on in it but after a few months you know all the maps, you know all the objectives. Hell i can list them:

Stay alive for a set time
defend the barracades
get the briefcase someone dropped
kill the uber zombie
escape
kill a set amout of zombies

it needs to be more than that if its going to have a re-playability factor to it otherwise you will get a rush of people and they will get boried after a few months as theres nothing new to do.

I know how things gets boring, the interresting thing is how they don'tget boring.
Let me give an example of a simple Warcraft 3 mapmod, that have a lot of replay value: I give you Spellcraft.
The idea is that each player has a mage to fight with, against waves of monsters. Before game start, and for every 5 waves, 3 magic stones X number of players appears. Now you can collect 3 stones, and depending on which ones you take, you'll get a different spell or aura.
It's very addictive, because you want to see how far you can get, and each game is different because different stones means different spells.

So what are the qualities of this mapmod we should have in Exterminatus also (if the E. setting win)?
1. Variety. You know what enemies you face, but not what you face them with. Random enemies spawning at random locations could add variety.
2. Best yourself. You always have the goal of reaching to a higher level than you have done before. This could be done by having an objective you need to defend as long as you can, or capture as fast as you can. If it's a simple "win or loose" you will never play the game again once you've won 3 times in a row.

as well as defence modes that r my fav (last stands FTW) attack is also a good option and so is the escort mode, ive bin thinking about this before typh psoted it, but never posted it, it could involve getting a rhino getting through a large city, u can have some player player maybe driving, but the driving moves very slowly, slower then marine run, you can take any route thru the city u want, and during this freak accidents may occur where a nid blows up a buildings, block ur path, then u get cornerned in buy nids, how will u win? vote exterminatus and find out!

Yes, I like the 3 modes (Assault, defence, VIP protect) Typhoon mentioned, too.
The "clear way for the tank" mode could also be good, provided that it's so hard that you won't compleate it in the first 10 tries at least.
Also, the events should vary from time to time, so sometimes the 'Nids will demolish a building that gets in the way, and in another game the team would need to get past a big nastie at that point instead.

just make there so amny different events and loads of different chances that each will happen
also why do u keep saying typhoon and not typheron ^^

I guess I like the wind ^^

I'm still not enjoying Exterminatus' idea as much as Synapse's idea.
I mean, all those ideas are pretty good but... why fight some mobs when you can fight players?
It's 1000 times more fun, like playing UT2004 with a bunch of friends and with the bots. It's another story...
If I want to kill "bots" I play single player games. I still think that Exterminatus is, by force of things, going to be boring, since:
1)bots are bots. They can be intelligent as hell (just look F.E.A.R.'s enemies) but they aren't real players.
2)I don't see much competion in "hey this time I'll resist more than the previous one" or "more than you". I mean, it can be fun once, twice, thrice, at the 4th time it's boring.
3)I don't think that the devs could do all those great works in a short time. This would lead to playing 3-4 missions for some time, it gets boring, then the devs put out a new mission, everyone plays that, and then it gets boring until a new mission.
4)You are ALWAYS a Space Marine. I mean, they're my favourites, but sometimes it's just cool using some other race. Being able to switch playing styles add lenght to the games' fun.

Those are my opinions, and don't worry, I'm not killing who thinks something else :D
I just think that Exterminatus looks good, but Synapse looks better (and we can't never say: maybe in the future we'll have both playing styles available).

And Synapse can quickly be shaped to be like Exterminatus - Just add bots :wink:
I think it would be easy to make it an option for servers to make a team bots-only, and perhaps balance the number of bots to the skill of the players.

marine:nid ratio, 1:100 would be my personal choice ^^

that's exactly what I meant.  :idea: