40K Source

One of the four game modes shortlisted, by the team for Exterminatus - Rival Species 2 (a one week poll to settle this subject will start on January the seventh).

Genestealer Cult War

++Full Mode Description (http://www.40ksource.com/mode.php?mode=tyranid/cult)++

This is the wacky, pushing the envelope of the "tyranid setting" mode of the four shortlisted.  Based in a sub-setting of the 40k universe that has faded into obscurity since it's hayday during the 2nd edition...

Years ahead of the attack of a hive fleet proper Genestealers (stealters) infiltrate the victim galaxy, to weaken it's defenses.  By implanting their genes and sublte mind-control stealers establish "broods" or "cults", composed of stealer hybrids and their families.  When the time is ripe the cult raises up in rebellion to the infected civilization bringing destruction from within as the hivefleet attacks from without.

Cult could form a good starting point for a "Space Hulk" mode in a later release.

Questions?  Suggestions?

I think it would be interesting if instead of an all out fight it was more sneaky.

2 teams divided 2/3rds imperial 1/3rd cultists.

the map is an urban town with AI citiizens walking around. The genestealers objective is to infect civilians while remaining undetected. When an AI civilian is infected, the infector has the option of having it follow and defend him, sending it away (off the map, presumably to the cult hideout) and having it count towards the cults score, or havind go about its buisness to be called on later. If an Imperial player is infected, he defects to the cults side, infecting a player should require much sneakiness.

The Imperials would be tasked with rooting out the cultists, they would most likely be PDF (just guardsmen essentially) with one or two higher ups leading the group (a space marine or two, maybe an inquisitor, or maybe a particularly tough PDF agent(an ogryn for example)). They could inspect the AI citizens for infection (who upon discovery would turn hostile), and hunt down the PC cultists. Alternatively all the Imperial PCs could be Heroic types with a bunch of wimpy PDF in tow.

The gameplay would sort of be like "The Hidden" and "The Ship" combined.

The PDF and Infected should be weak, the Cultists should be stronger than the PDF (not much) and much faster, show visible signs of genestealer mutations, but have limited access to weapons, and perhaps have a little telepathic power (convince a citizen to walk towards him from a distance, into a dark alley or some such)

The heroic imperials would be the strongest thing on the map, and have access to all weapons.

Hmmm it appears i just described the FPS ive always wanted.... oh well im sure someone will like it.

PS dont forget to include the genestealer limo

(Everithing I say here is a comment to the game mode suggested by Egarb)
This sounds pretty much as an Inquisitor game, with stealth, mutants and suble goals.  :)  
One problem with this setting is that the Imperial Inquisition or Guard will be called for on such a small-scale war. Unless it's on Ultamar itself, of cause. We could have a very respected inquistioner taking command of a band of Ultramarines to root out the alien infestation.
I would really, really love an inquisitor-style game, but this would be somewhat different from the role we normally see the Ultramarines in (as super-elite storm-troopers).
The SM will have a difficould choise: Stay together, and risk stealers sneaking around them, compleating their infiltration in secret, or spread out, risking to get overwhelmed one by one...  :twisted:

I think youre right about the whole "wtf are Ultramarines doing fighting a cult" it really isnt even a job for imperial guard, PDF would do it. So my idea wouldnt be feasable for the RS2 team unless they're already modeling a Imp. Guard for some reason (which could be easily reskinned to look like PDF troops, PDF are almost the same as guard anyway, just with worse equipment).

Of course i dont think it would make sense for genestealers to be fighting all out with ultramarines in any situation, except of course space hulk, perhaps space hulk is the best idea, since you could use models already being created, perhaps a space hulk type synapse could be in the first release with the culty synapse being added in later (assuming that the team has enough time, and that the mod is popular enough).

im not so deep in the fluff but wouldnt the ordo xenos inspecting if the think there could be the danger of xenos infection?

Well you see heres the thing, 'stealer cults have genestealers in them and they have a Patriarch Stealer at their heart which is a highly psykik stealer as well as all the hybrids and clan troops.

Now the IG or PDF would deal with the open rebels, But they aint gonna be able to handle going into the cults home base as its gonna be crawling with Stealers and no amount of IG can realistically deal with that.

So thats where space marines come in. They have the training and the gear to do it.

Actually, usually the PDF would be on their own, the cult would most likely spring up quickly and remain undetected for some time, usually masquerading as a sort of nondenominational group of Emporer worshipers, (IE they to the Imperium look like a legitimate cult, instead of a Xenos cult I can drag up a bit of fluff that supports this if you want). By the time the local PDF got wind, the cult could be of fairly substantial size, the planet could be overrun by the time the Guard or Inquisitors got there. Oftentimes the Guard would arrive to find that the Planet had been almost wholly infected (warranting Externinatus), or that the PDF had for the most part beaten back the cult. That or the cult and PDF are in an all out war (with of course a hivefleet on the way).

So definitely a job for the PDF, the Patriarch definitely wouldn't usually openly fight, but instead flee to preserve the cult (even though he has substantial fighting abilities). So when the PDF (or Guard if they've gotten there, interstellar travel can take quite some time) encounter him, it would be him on the run with his elite guard. If the PDF is well equipped (unlikely, depending on the importance of the planet, or its manufacturing capabilities) or has superior numbers, they should be able to take oout the patriarch (albeit with a good deal of "acceptable losses").

So the possible settings for "Genestealer Cult War" are:

1) Marines arrive to a heavily infested planet, backed up only by the few remaining PDF

2) Marines arrive with the planet in all out civil war

3) PDF fighting in all out civil war, no marine support (possibly en route)

4) PDF catch wind early, have support of Imperial Guard, due to their relative close positioning

5) PDF catch wind early, no Imperial support (possibly en route)

6) PDF/support (or only PDF) chasing down an on the run patriarch


Now that I mention it option 6 seems like another good gameplay idea, Marines chasing down the patriarch and his hevily mutated, heavily armed elite guards. A sort of reverse VIP escort where the Patriarch must reach the map edge.

Anyway, sorta geeked out there and typed more than I meant to, why do i know this much about genestealers. Meh. If my ideas flop I can at least quote fluff for yall.

Edited for spelling, I'm a third generation firstborn son of an engineer, engineers are notoriously bad spellers

I had in mind a state shading between Egarb's settings 1 and 2.  The marines arriving in the late stages of a civil war thet the cult is winning (having sucessfuly infiltaited and divided the PDF early on).

Setting 6 could be a sub-objective withing the mission structure rather than a mode all on it's own.

But Edgarb, why are the Ordo Xenos missing in all of your scenarios?
It's after all their job to collect any evidence of possibly xenos-related activity. They would VERY OFTEN discover the cult before the planear defence forces, but perhaps comandeer some PDF troops to back them up in the fighting.

By the way Edgarb, you seem like a very active discusser. Why don't you come around at the IRC channel (quakenet, #rspecies2), there are as much activity there as in the forum.

Rememebr that OX are a small fraction of the space marines and that there is less than one space marine per inhabited world.  Keep this in mind and you will see the monumental task they face.

With an imperium if a million inhabited worlds even if the imperial agencies catch 99.99% of all alien infiltrations (I doubt it...) before they become a danger a hundred worlds are still endagered.  Within that shadow of those dark places, beyond the emporer's light, that spawns the Cult War.

 :twisted:

i didnt see it before but this mode cud be quite good ^^

I remember OX to be a part of the Inquisition, an imperial organisation relatet to neither IG, SM or the Ecclisary, but with the power to commandeer almost any member of those other organisations.

the space marines in the OX deathwatch are made up from volenteers from any chapter, they serve for however long they like before going back to their chapters, but i think they can commandeer anything else

Ever read the Eisenhart novels?
I was actually thinking about someone like him.
An Inquistioner, moving quickly between worlds, following every rumor indicating xenos infiltration, then striking quickly at the cults with his personal guard of followers and merchenaries. A SM or two may be assigned to his command for a time, if the chapter can spare the warrior and trust the Inquistioner.

MigB you mean the "Eisenhorn" novels  :D

The reason I never mention the Ordo Xenos is that I don't see them usually getting mixed up in genestealer wars, even thought it falls directly udnder their jusrisdiction. This isn't for lack of want. Unless an Inquisitor was just sauntering around a planet with a new cult the Ordo Xenos wouldnt know until it was too late for them to do it, and heres my reasoning.

Usually the PDF would find out about the cult first, and would call for help, and begin fighting.  Taking into account the lenngth of time it takes for space travel, (even warp travel takes a god while, unless the reinforcement are stationed in the next solar system) it may be months or even years before ANYONE comes to aid them.  By that time the PDF either have it under control, are in a stalemate, or are being overrun. In any event, an Inquisitor and his personal retuine (as mighty as they may be) wont be what is needed. Either nothing would be needed, or an army is needed. What is an Inquisitor gonna do against a flood of genestealers? Pop a few and say "Damn! I'm not prepared for this.... Exterminatus."

I always saw Ordo Xenos dealing with more longterm alien threats, Tau incursions into Imperial space, roumors of an Ork fleet, Chaosy cults, etc.

As to why I dont join the IRC.... Thats a good question, I'll get on that withing the week.

As I see it, you're stating that the Ordo Xenos are a bounch of lousy amatures that can't do their job. Heretic!  :wink:
The genestealers might be sneaky, but not THAT sneaky. I would say out of 10 infiltrations the Ordos discover the cult in 7 cases, PDF in 2 and 1 succedes to civil war.

Btw. Ordo Xenos don't deal with chaos cults, that's what order Malleus and Hereticus are for.

And yes, you're right. It's EisenHORN, not heart.

Meh I always get my Ordos mixed up. Maybe I'm not giving the Inquisitors their due, but it simply seems to me that being an elite group (and hence a relatively small number of them, a good deal of them at desk jobs too) that not every planet would have its very own inquisitorial force. They can't just go planet hopping, knocking on door, looking for cults and whatnot (even in our world, police have to be called).  I'd say at max, Ordo Xenos discovers 4 in 10 infections, PDF 3 in 10, 2 in 10 becoming obvious, an maybe 1 in 20 becoming big wars.

Would post more but ive gtg

for the record guys there called Deathwatch :P

I think we've thoughly answered the question regarding why the Imperium don't put a stop to these cults before they start a a civil war.

Can we get back on topic now?

Questions and Suggestions about this mode please.

No, we can't.
Everybody have forgotten what this tread was about in the first place, and noone cares.
 :wink:

Erm, sorry for the off topicness.

Well I have a few Ideas for the gamemode, and I'll detail them.

Idea One:

Two Teams a Genestealer Patriarch (only him on the team) vs. A squad of about nine marines (for larger servers perhaps add another genestealer player for every 8 or so marines).  The Patriarch is fairly powerful physicaly, armed with a bolt pistol or lasrifle (or anything really, a patriarch could have been anybody before, a big beefy fellow, but that doesn't fit the crazy infected cult leader sterotype) with an assorment of psychic powers.  He can move fast and is nearly silent, he needs to sneak up on individual marines and infect them turining them to their side. No one respawns until a round is over.

-The Patriarch should have about 150 health, no armor
-The Marines 100 health, 100 armor
-Marines get the standard marine weaponry; flamers, bolters, heavy bolters, etc
-The patriarch has claws, a bolt pistol, a Lasrifle, and some psychic powers
-When a Marine is infected they should lose 20 or so armor, and gain 50 health from their current health (IE if the marine has 73 health he ends up with 123)
-Last team standing wins

Idea Two:

A simple team based death match, no respaws (think counter strike without bombsites, or DoD without respawns) where one team (marines) has an emphasis on weaponry, equipment, and teamwork. Where the other (genestealers) has an emphasis on speed, melee, and ramboing (groups of two stealers swooping down killing a marine and whoosing off).

Idea Three:

My original post with the NPC Infecting


Of all my ideas two would be easiest I think, and would hold more replay value for limited map numbers, Ideas two and three are more original, but may not have replay value if its played on the same map over and over

wait a second... marines dont get infected! they die!
a genestealer cult takes GENERATIONS to grow. in human terms, several months, if i remember that codex correctly.

surely, i would love that. i might actually go draw some concepts on brood brothers and different generations of genestealer/human mutations.

then of course this idea. since brood brothers do not have really corrupted bodies, and look like human, why not give them the faces of the Exterminatus dev team? or anyone that wishes? the faces could be added on as random model attachments when the brood brother is spawned by worldspawn in the beginning of the round. not only is it fun to see the dev team being blown to pieces by an overzealous squad of Ultramarines, it brings variety to the game. anyone interested might start modeling his own face. besides, the term "brood brother" is sorta relative. there are women in cults too.

shall concept art be made?

Eagerb, Patriarchs are basicly old geenstealers, they have no concept of tools and cant use weapons.

Zenarion, sure concept art would be useful.

I was thinking a bit about this mode...
If I knew we were going to make a "cult" game, I would definately have voted for Chaos opponents instead.
They have much more inspirering mutations, psychic powers and devilish schemes. Also, they more goals than "grow many so we can overthrow the planet".

theres more to stealer cults than just "lets grow more".

do some googleing and see what you find, plus everyone does chaos. Very few few peopel do stealer cults mainly due to lack of recent support

GW does not really care for them anymore right? am i free to download the codex in .pdf format?