Suggestion to Gameplay

[migb]

The problem is, of cause, that W40K is balanced by having units of different point values, meaning that they DO in fact have different power.
Also, many units are limited in numbers (1 HQ squad, 1 captain per squad, 3 special weapons per squad), so I don't think a free-for-all Battlefield class system would work.

But if only basic marines had grenades, it would balance the classes a bit.
I think there should be a number of special slots per team (like 1 captain, 2 apothecs, 3 special weapon). This would mean that a small team would stand a better chance against a larger team, as they have all their specials, and just lack a bit of basic marines. I have often experienced that a game have been ruined because half a team quits, and noone changes team.

[blackt]

yeah but still the same problem as discussed before:
with restricted slots the people with the fastest connection (often the hardcore gamers) will get the class they wanted without a chance for anybody else...

i think now after some time of thinking that the prestige solution would fit the best... costs are extreme and you dont get points while being a prestige class... so there could be terminator armours and such without getting the game out of balance because when he dies he probably wont be able to get one the next few hours of gaming...

[migb]

Perhaps the "extreme prestige" solution is the best. But a new problem arrives: If a round consists of 15 min. of gameplay, and it takes hours to get a Terminator suit, you'll end up having teams winning rounds just because they had three players in terminator armor that round. Or maybe termies won't be that heavy, but I dislike the idea of having the teams power shift from round to round.
In theory, both teams should be equally powerful, all rounds. Therefor people shouldn't carry "rewards" from round to round.

Now for the good thing about the "extreme prestige" solution: We can have the frequency of classes exactly as in the board game!  
Say a player can have a special weapon in about 1 of 4 lives, be a sergent in 1 of 10 lives and terminator or caplain in 1 of 20.

[Wolf]

yes but the tyranids will have their big creatures to, ill admit it now that when im playin RS2 i dont wanna run into a carny or a lictor, carni is big and strong, lictors are kinda scary ^^

[Razielk]

i have always been in favour of the "make everything have equal killing power" thing.  this way you can choose whatever team/class/weapon you like the most and still be able to kill things.  

The best example of this is in games like DoD where you can use any weapon you like and even though they are all different, there is not one that rules the battlefield.  what got old for me with RS on HL1 was that there was a real "paper, scissor, stone" style of gameplay; bolter beats a lasgun, heavy bolter beats a bolter, etc.  

basically you knew you were going to die if they have a better weapon  

[blackt]

but thats the same in the reality...
if u have a vulcan machine gun u have a much bigger chance against somebody with stones and sticks.  :wink:

well i would like to see terminators and all that stuff if nids really get carnifexes, tyrants and zoantrophes :-D

[Wolf]

from what i know, nids will be having zoanthropes, lictos, warriors and carnys for the big guys, and i wreckon the marines ARNT going to get termys, so its kinda pushing teamplay for marine players, no lone wolf stuff, lone wolves get scared and killed by lictors ^^

[Razielk]

if u have a vulcan machine gun u have a much bigger chance against somebody with stones and sticks.  

yes, but it does not stop the guy with the stick running up behind him and hitting the guy with the vulcan machine gun over the head with a rock!

all i mean is that it everything should have the potential to kill anything else!  using DoD again as an example, you can have a guy in a bunker with a mg42 blazing, then someone manages to shoot him with a rifle and takes him down.  the machine gun is by far the more powerful weapon but it is not imposible to displace them or take out the owner just as easily as someone weilding a shovel!  actually i have seen plenty of people with machine guns shoveled!  

in RS1 it was more like: a space marine will OWN an eldar guardian, no matter how many times you throw them at him!  but it is possible for a lasgun to kill a marine in one shot on the TT!

hope this clears up what i meant  

[migb]

Back to the actual suggestions for gameplay:

I guess we all want the SM to stay together in units of 2-6 players. They should move out quite slowly while staying together and looking for the enemy. One in sight of the enemy, they should take up the most favourable cover, or charge in group, if they are assault troops.

The nids should just swarm over the place, the melee troops not caring about cover, while the ranged ones provide covering fire.
Lictors should of cause be smarter, using stealth, and the real long-ranged 'Nisd should also try to stay back, in cover, out of sight.

And now for the fun part: To suggestions on how to create that gameplay  
I think SM should have relatively small clips, and long loading time. That would force people to take cover, and stay in teams, just like CS. Oppositely, Tyranids should either have unending ammo, or very large clips, more like Unreal Tournament weapons.

(thinking of more suggestions)

[Wolf]

id just like to say 30 round clip for bolter is suitable, also wanna make a suggestion on lictors, these mofo's are gonna have to be scary, coz if TT was real u wudnt want to meet a lictor, also i read a story where the lictor saw 2 guard thru a wall, so if they have alimited thermal vision that cud be ok, also speical ability wud have to make them blend in with surroundings, predator style, as long as they stay next to wall so they have something to blend with, if a marine goes stray and the lictors on the hunt, u wnt see that marine again until u find his body in several bits

[migb]

Or better, improved hearing!
Anyone tried Dystopia? An implant makes you "see" sounds on your screen, red sound icons are for footsteps from enemies, grey for neutral or weapon sounds, friendlies don't show up.
And for the camouflage, try make it like the Hidden:Source, but of cause a lot less powerfull. The hidden one shows up as a blur.

[Razielk]

id agree with a 30 round bolter, it sticks with the fluff and gives you a good shot chance at lasting more then a few seconds.

With the lictor i would have them blend in only when they are still, maybe not so predator style because that is near totally invisible, just changing colour to convincingly blend in with the suroundings.  but yeah they should still scare the hell outa people if possible  

id say space marine squads up to 10, seeing as that is the max you can have in a squad.

[Alhaus]

personally though i think lictors should get very little benifit for being out in the open. They are supposed to spring from cover and stuff.

[migb]

I don't know how many people the source engine can realisticly manage in the same game, but I'm afraid an optimal squad size of 10 would make the SM team having just 1 team in most games. And just one theam wouldn't be able to both defend an objective and assault the enemy base at the same time.
To have just two teams of 10 marines you would need 20 people + 6 on the Tyranid team = 26 people online at the server. I would aim for 6-8 people in a squad.

Regarding squads, I got an idea. What about making people choose which squad they want to be in? Each squad have a leader that all members of the squad can see through walls (like NS hivesight), making it easier to stick together, and get back to the squad if you die.
The squad leader could also choose which ones get to have the special weapons, people should of cause be able to vote for a new leader.

[Razielk]

we have had talk of voting for team/squad leaders before and came to the conclusion that it wouldnt work out.  also the leader assigning weapons to people would result in the leaders favorite players getting all the good equipment, and the rest not seeing anything more then a bolter.

i dont see anything wrong with having squad sizes of 10, there can always be less, and the source engine can support way more then 26 players.

the 6 players on the tyranid team is assuming that the synapse mode is chosen and uses the 3 marines to 1 warrior and 2 gaunts system.  i think that untill we have found a way to balance the sides, we wont actually have a good idea of what squad sizes are needed for either side