Idea for class selection/specialization

[gonzo]

Seeing that tyranids are in this version a custom class creation would be sick. For example having a total point cost per team divided among everyone. Biomorphs could be selected and added to each of the classes as they could be according to the codex guidelines. same thing would go for the space marines with weapons, gear and enhancements. would be tight. just an idea.

[Typheron]

generally thats the plan for the space marine team, although it will be a personal point allotment, you give it to the whole team and someone always acts the git and runs off with all the good and expensive gear only to be chopped in half when trying to use a lascannon as a club.

The nids are to be wokring on the principle of broods, the brood you buy defines your wargear, although perhaps veterain broods with adaptions later on...

[ChromeAngel]

I'd love to see biomods and a variety of imperial wargear in EX at some point, but for starters were going for some basic classes with set wargear.

Regarding points handling, I plan to keep this very much in the background, players dont really need to know what's going on with the point values, we can let the PCs take care of the number chunking.

[Deadmeat]

Have you guys considered limiting the number of roles available rather than a points based system. I'm thinking of the kind of system used in Red Orchestra (well the UT2004 mod, I haven't got osterfront). For example the Space Marine team has 1 Sergeant slot, 1 Devastator slot, 2 Specialist slots and unlimited Tactical slots. Each player would select a role depending on what was free. The availability of the different roles would be assigned by the mapper. This would give the sides a better, and more realistic, balance to them and might encourage team play. Of course there's always the possibility of having some muppet(s) in charge of your heavy weapons but your always going to get idiot players.

[ChromeAngel]

Have you guys considered limiting the number of roles available rather than a points based system. I'm thinking of the kind of system used in Red Orchestra (well the UT2004 mod, I haven't got osterfront). For example the Space Marine team has 1 Sergeant slot, 1 Devastator slot, 2 Specialist slots and unlimited Tactical slots. Each player would select a role depending on what was free. The availability of the different roles would be assigned by the mapper. This would give the sides a better, and more realistic, balance to them and might encourage team play. Of course there's always the possibility of having some muppet(s) in charge of your heavy weapons but your always going to get idiot players.

We have considered such a system, when we were planning the game modes.  The trouble is they tend to feel annoyingly arbitary/unfair unless all the classes are equaly balanced.  We chose to risk breaking army list consistancy rather than cripple certain aspects of some classes in order to balance them, because a heavy weapon is always better...

[Deadmeat]

We have considered such a system, when we were planning the game modes.  The trouble is they tend to feel annoyingly arbitary/unfair unless all the classes are equaly balanced.  We chose to risk breaking army list consistancy rather than cripple certain aspects of some classes in order to balance them, because a heavy weapon is always better...

Sure, but will the game play be ok if there are 6 or 7 Marines running around with Las Cannons (or whatever heavy weapons you include).

The different classes don't necessarily have to be balanced, as long as the two teams are well balanced. I guess as it's a team game the overall goal should be for your side to win, so you have to work with what you've got.

I can see how players might like all being on an even footing though. It's probalbly going to come down to the type of fan base your going to attract.

[Typheron]

a lot of the leasons we learned from RS1, at one point you could use any class in the whole game at any time (and up to 5 of that class cept the basic ones).

typically everyone choose terminators, dreadnsughts or las cannons which made the game suck so bad poeple stopped playing it for a while.

[Deadmeat]

typically everyone choose terminators, dreadnsughts or las cannons which made the game suck so bad poeple stopped playing it for a while.

Thats exactly the kind of situation I was thinking you might be able to avoid with a limited amount of special roles slots available. I'm sure I read else were on the site that when each player starts they only have access to the basic troop type, then as they kill enemies and achieve objectives the more advanced troop types become available. Assuming players are going to always choose the best troop type available to them, as the match progress's aren't you simply going to end up with a server full of the most powerful troops anyway? Ok, it might balance out if everyone progress's at roughly the same rate, but what if a new player joins half way through. Everyone else is going to be more powerful than them - they'll die more often, kill less and find it more difficult to reach the same level as everyone else.

[Typheron]

i think were peobably gonna take a leaf out of the current RS for that one, in that there will either be sargents or vets that get access to the truly devastating equipment and oyu can only have one of each type.

although again we will have to see how things pan out when we get alpha testing.

[Bahl]

well, for choosing such a good class, you also have to pay the respective big amount of points gathered during the early game. and you will garner less points while you are a good class. so eventually you will run out of points and have to choose a cheap class again. at least thats how its suppposed to be ;-).

[Deadmeat]

well, for choosing such a good class, you also have to pay the respective big amount of points gathered during the early game. and you will garner less points while you are a good class. so eventually you will run out of points and have to choose a cheap class again. at least thats how its suppposed to be ;-).

Ok - sounds like a similar system to that used in Counter Strike. I haven't played CS to much but I still noticed that the trend was for everyone to end up with big guns after a couple of rounds. Hmmm, awarding players less points for using the better classes might get around this (like you suggested). It does mean though that you might still end up with situations were everyone has enough points for the big boys the match is swamped with heavy weapons. Yes they should run out of points more quickly but, considering the amount of firepower the team will have in one go, will the match last long enough for that to happen?

[Bahl]

well, the current ROUND will surely not last long enough for that to happen in that case. but these pointbudgets are maintained throughout your whole playtime. that usually means throughout several months! (as long as you stay on one server.) so in one round they might rule, but the next round theyll prolly have used up all the precious points ;-).

[Deadmeat]

well, the current ROUND will surely not last long enough for that to happen in that case. but these pointbudgets are maintained throughout your whole playtime. that usually means throughout several months! (as long as you stay on one server.) so in one round they might rule, but the next round theyll prolly have used up all the precious points ;-).

Hmm interesting idea. It would make people thinik abit more about the cost to benefit of playing a better class. You'd be relying on having permanent long term servers to pull it off. Are the games going to be more of a short, rounds based system or are you aiming for 10-20 min matches?

[Aurelious]

how about only rewarding long time players with the option of veteran.
but wait there's more....

you can't have two veterans in a team so this veteran picks or is assigned other players. not just random noobs and newbies but other players that have found a specialisation such as, this player is good with the melta so he's you special, this one is great with the heav bolter so them plus some newer players as tacticals and there you  have a nice balanced squad

and now allow me to point out the obvious fault with this idea....

it would mean that there needs to be a constant influx of people either starting out and being tactiacls or players that wanted to stick with their bolters and not try a melta or hev bolter and of course we would all end up being veterans with no one to comand

but it sounded good at the start no?

[Typheron]

yes, however things have changed somewhat sine this post was created, mainly that the Vet is now more of a sargent than a uber hero.

right now the vet is a small upgrade of the tactical marine with the added advantage of increased stats and a better CC weapon combo. The inferno pistol is proving to very useful for taking out those big nids you come across while the bolter allows for some ranged combat.