Termis and Genstealers

[L.o.L]

Dear,
Typheron and Chromeangel
how will you make the termis and genstealers if they win the vote?
like how much ammo will termis get in their storm bolter how much hp would they have and how much damage would the stormbolter and powerfist do?
and would they get anything else at all or just storm bolter and powerfist?

[Typheron]

Dunno, most of the fine details like ammo count and the like come out during testing. Typically an arbitary value will be used to start, something based on current stats and then we will see how they play.

As an example, once upon a time the Heavy had less ammo than he currently has, and the warrior could run considerably faster than currently.

So generally I would expect that Terminators will probably be limited on movement (slower? cant climb ladders?) but more powerful than your average marine (definatly more health than a vet). We would be remiss in not having a storm Bolter and power fist but beyond that I could not say what else for sure on the Terminator. As is currently a basic set of gear for each class would be in keeping.

Genestealer, fast lethal claws for sure. Some kind of special ability to make it different from a claws only warrior? dunno really.

Bearing in mind the limitations of workload, any ideas would be good (its highly unlikly any more than one set of weapons for each for instance to start with).

[L.o.L]

alright thanks for the reply

[Brother Captain Archangel]

I'd like the assault terminator, with hammer and shield plz

[ChromeAngel]

We might have to play test assault and tactical style terminators with placeholder models before we choose what style armament they get.  I cannot predict how a really hard to kill marine would effect the objective capture game play.  If we make them too tough they may just be able to walk into an nid spawn and capture it before anyone can kill him.

I'd be in favor of giving the terminator a carnifex style damage reduction rather then extra health.  Normal marine speed, but no sprint or jump.  Initially i'd treat the stormbolter as a pair of regular bolters, so 60 shots at double the bolters rate of fire and no spare clips.  I think 2 hits from a powerfist would kill most nids (carnifex being the exception), however the terminator still has a much shorter reach than a tyranid, so he may have difficulty getting close enough.

If we went the thunderhammer route that would definitely be a one hit kill weapon.  I can envisage using a storm shield as a secondary attack would reduce incoming damage to about 10%, we might need to reduce him to walking speed while using it to prevent the spawn rushes I mentioned earlier.

If we make genestealers they would start off as small warriors, same health, speed and talon attacks.  As a smaller target this might be enough to balance their lack of a ranged weapon.  If this is not enough we'll need to work out a decent secondary ability, something unique to them.  Possibly a paralyzing "hypnotic stare" or a NS style "parasite".  Map specific wall climbing has also been discussed.

[Typheron]

what chrome says, goes so ignore any of my post if chrome contradicts it.

One thing about no jump on the terminator is that a general map update will have to be done to cover it, as ramps will have to be added to allow ease of access.

[L.o.L]

Initially i'd treat the stormbolter as a pair of regular bolters, so 60 shots at double the bolters rate of fire and no spare clips.

Why would he have no spare ammo when he is going to be a tier 3 unit? cause HB gets full ammo when he spawns.

And i also had a thought that gene would be esier to kill than warrior but he would be REALLY fast.

[ChromeAngel]

Initially i'd treat the stormbolter as a pair of regular bolters, so 60 shots at double the bolters rate of fire and no spare clips.

Why would he have no spare ammo when he is going to be a tier 3 unit? cause HB gets full ammo when he spawns.

And i also had a thought that gene would be esier to kill than warrior but he would be REALLY fast.

No spare ammo mainly because a powerfist would be too awkward to reload with.

I'm fairly sure a marine size a stealer moving at tyranid speed, will feel REALLY fast.  That would just be my starting point though, we'd test it and see if needs changing from there.

[Typheron]

remeber last time we had REALLY fast moving stuff chrome, it broke the game engine and proved very, very hard to hit.

[L.o.L]

by really fast i kinda meant 50% more movement than the warrior or maybe less % movement :/
It would look fine if termi reoaded since the power fist can be turned off and be just like a normal hand just bigger. and if not maybe make the storm bolter have a 100 round clip maybe 200? since HB has about over 200 shots total.... i think.

[Typheron]

thing is, a Termi will have a dedicated close combat weapon that will rival most of the Tyranid ones. You have to factor in its killy-ness at range and its ability to kill up close, so having large amouts of ammo in a gun and a power fist may be too much, although that could be offest by low accuracy which would be in keeping with the stormbolters nature as an close support gun.

This will take some considerable testing to get right, i think from fluff a standard bolter clip holds 30 round, while a drum mag holds 80-120 rounds. It would be highly unlikely that a termy could reload (or would even have spare clips on his armour, where would he keep em?)

On RS1, one interesting thing about the Terminators was that there ammo was extremely limited, once they were out that was it and they carried less ammo than a normal marine 9although they could reload once if i remeber right). It may be a good idea to have a similar situation to ensure that stormbolter spam is not an issue and that the class has some weakness and a roel on the battlefield thats not too broad.

I say all this, but testing really will show what is needed, what we should try to determine is what a terminator should be based on the table top version, rather than throwing about meaningless numbers and percentiles (since they will be changed upon full implimentation).

So what is a Terminator? and what is a genestealer? How should they work as a in game class compared to there Table Top counterparts?

[L.o.L]

i read the spacehulk novel and the termis had spare clips on em and maybe the main weakness of termis could be that they are very slow maybe half the speed of a marine and maybe make it so they cant climb ladders or maybe that their storm bolter doeas same damage as bolter and fires at same rate but it fires 2 shots instead of one?