Suggestion to Gameplay

[Nic2]

This is Imperials vs Tyranids.

Two teams, both controlled by players, with AI support.
Imperials containing Spacemarines and Imperial Guards.
Tyranids are just Tyranids.


The objective is to destroy the enemy mainbase or HQ.
There are a number of controllpoints located in the maps,
which gives points over time to the team that holds them.
Both teams will get a small amount of points from thier HQ,
but the rate will increase if they capture more controllpoints.
When a team get more points they unlock better units and equipment.


Playing as Tyranids:
You choose what type of unit you will be playing.
Then you organize your squad as you like it,
choosing from melee and ranged units (insert basic tyranid unittypes here).
The squad will have four AI controlled units to start with.
But as the team-points gets higher you get to controll more squadmembers,
and get tougher unittypes.
You can also choose a better unit for yourself as the team-points rise.
The size of your squad depends on what unittype you play and the amount of team-points your team have.


Playing as Imperials:
You can either play as a Space Marine or as an Imperial Guardsman.
As a marine you just select weaponry, like bolter and grenades.
With higher team-points you can select heavy weapons, jet-packs and even be a terminator.
As a Guardsman you will have a squad to compensate for the lack of powerarmour,
the squad will contain two AI controlled guards to start with, but can have more squadmembers and better weapons with higher team-points.
You can also choose to play without the squad if you select to controll a sentinel or some other lightarmoured vehicle (jeep).
For the Guardsmen heavy weapons might need to be mounted on a vehicle like a jeep or a sentinel.

// Nic2

[Typheron]

A mode like this has been devised, were calling it Synapse as you play as the 'Nid Synapse creatures.

[ChromeAngel]

In "Synapse" as it is currently planned all the AIs are on the Tyranid side, in order to give the effect of the Tyranids being this huge swarm and the Marines being a comparitively small, elite force.  AIs on both sides might make it feel like a bigger battle, but it would loose the aspect of fighting the swarm.

A control points system like the one you suggest hasnt been included in the planned modes because it feels like too artifical for the 40k universe, like game mechanics for its own sake.

[Nic2]

Hmm, so you mean that all unittypes will be avalible at start?
And you say that AI should only be for tyranids.. that means guardsmen are not in the game or useless. :/

[Typheron]

thats not been decided yet, although right no theres no IG in it althouogh that may change as we decide where to go with it.

Their has been talk of A.I. IG guarding certain places in the map that the Nids would have to wipe out to proceed. Nothing is sure yet.

[ChromeAngel]

The unit types being available all depends on the game mode, which hasnt been settled yet.

Imperial guard are being considered for use in some modes, but for the most part were planning for  the imperial players to use Space Marines.

[Anonymous]

I think it would be pretty interesting if the AI Guardsmen used Combine Soldier and/or Resistance Fighter intelligence.  You probably wouldn't have to program much more; any AI deficiencies could be explained by the fact that they're just nubbish Imperial Guard and the players are elite Space Marines ;p

-Prok

[Typheron]

my understaning of the way A.I. work in HL2 is that it is easyer to base it off the existing enemies so its ore than likly that the code of the IG will be based of the squad code of the combice squads.

[migb]

Seems like some nice enough ideas.

I don't like the control-point idea, the game should simmulate small encounters and surgical strike-missions rather than huge battles.
So, either 1 HQ per team, or a series of objectives.

I do like the idea of AI-controlled swarm minions. It would give the newbs a chance to kill something too.

 :idea:  Normally, all player classes have to be at the same level of power, like in Battlefield 1945.
But you could have a system with class limitations.
For example, the Imperial side could have 1 Terminator slot, 3 Space Marine slots and unlimited guard slots.
So, from the start only 1 player could be Terminator.
After say 3 minutes the Terminator slot refills, and a dead player can choose it, and if the first Terminator is still alive, the team now have 2 Terminators.
But there will never be more than 1 "available slot", no matter how long time the team waits.

Effects of the system:
- A team can get a significant advantage over the other, if its players stays alive long enough.
- The teams does not get heavier and heavier equipment, like in NS, but stays at roughly the same power level.
- You can actually use over-powering player units, like Carnifexes, without spoiling the game balance.
- The teams don't need to have an equal amount of players, as the fewer players will have more heavy unit slots to use.

Maybe there should be a system that makes the heavy equipment available to the best players on the team first, so newbs don't waste the teams resources.

[ChromeAngel]

Fixed slots for superior classes was considered early on, however their is an issue is with choosing who gets those superior classes.

If you give them to the best players, they will dominate the game, making it feel unfair to lesser players.

If you make it first come first served the players with the fastest mouse and lowest ping get them, since these guys are probably the same as the as the best players you get the same problem.

If you had them out randomly it can feel very arbitary and you almost always never end up with the class you want and no-one feels rewarded.

Finally balancing mixed strengths of classes in games with varying numbers of players can be very tricky.

[migb]

Yes, I can see the problems.
Here are a couple of suggestions for fixes.

The fastest-ping-gets-super can be fixed by having an initial delay to the slots.

Maybe the choosing of the super-classes could be limited by a player point-system.
At any time the player can select which classes he want to stand in line to.
Spawning as a class costs point after the class power, but not if he is the only one in line for it (so people does not use up points for uncontested slots).
The player can use the slot if he is among the top point players that have requested it.
So, if there are 2 slots available for a class, and 5 have requested it, only the 3 (2+1) top point players can spawn as the class.

I don't think the points should be awarded for frags and so, but mainly for the waiting time.

Results:
The first dead probably re-spawns with the heavy equipment.
As everyone requests it, it'll take a long time before he can have it again.
If everyone requests heavy armor, they will each have a round with it.
People will go for different classes, as they don't cost points if you are the only one requesting.
People can specialize in mid-level classes, and get them very often if they stay from the high-level classes.
Dying becomes painfull, as you'll probably have to start up as a grunt and loose your terminator-armor.
Players with powerfull equipment will therefore be catious not to die to loose it.
Problem: If no points are awarded for frags, some players might be tempted to hide away to stay alive.

Of cause it can be tricky to balance the game with the different super-units, but well, it's worth the try.
Sometimes someone have to do something different.
And Battlefield Vietnam was successful even though the American anti-tank class was by far superior to both the fighter and the engineer class.

[Tortured_Soul]

Are you planning on letting people start off with the big armour (termie suits etc) and after a certian number of uses of the termie class, making it un avalilbe and people start having to move down to lower sub classes, eg. Marines w/ Haevy Bolters, rocket launchers, etc???

[Typheron]

dont think thats the plan, its more the other way round like RS is just now, better gear the better you play.

[migb]

I can understand if people have problems understanding what I suggested, it got a bit technical.

Basicly, the team can only spawn their powerful classes at a certain interval, f.x. marine each 20 sec, terminator each 2 min.
Then who gets the suit?
It's random, but with a twist to it.
Each player can choose whether they want to stand in line for a class or not, so you'll not be forced to play a class that you hate.
If several people (say 3+) stands in line for the same class, then it cannot be taken by the player(s) that have had it the most times already.

The team can end up having several heavies at the map, IF they can stay alive long enough for the next to spawn.
There should be a "free" light class (Imperial guardsman) that people can always spawn as.

I hope people understand it now, else ask.

[ChromeAngel]

Ah  :roll:  I get it now.  It seems we might leave people waiting around a lot in that case.