Mode Discussion - Synapse

[The Vastator]

yeah Typh, that's what I wanted to say.

[migb]

What I don't like about this setting is this:
All Synapse creatures are supposed to be stronger than a Marine. In all aspects, both toughness, speed and weapon damage.
But if the Tyranids have 1 Synapse creature per SM player AND a swarm of gaunts, the Synapse creatures actually needs to be weaker than a SM...

I know, someone will say that "no, the SM are weaker, 'cause then they will have to work together as a TEAM". But hey, the Tyrnaids can work together as a team also, just as efficient as the SM.
If anyone have gameplay suggestions that will make SM teamplay more efficient than Tyranid, go ahead.

[ChromeAngel]

I have been persuaded that TT marines are under-priced compared to their actual effectiveness.  Compared to warriors the marines are roughly equal.

The way i'm currently  planning to balance it is that Tyranid players will get either a Warrior OR a brood of Termagaunts (with the hive node biomod) as their base class.  If their are more marine players (which I suspect their will be) the tyranid players will recieve extra gaunts when they respawn to balance it out.

If you are worried about some of the synapse creatures being way more powerfull than marines, dont worry, the tyranid players will have to work harder to earn those reward classes than marines will to get theres.  Specificly you will see melta guns about twice as often as zoanthropes.

Although the DoD style "balanced sets" sounds a good idea, I dont feel the classes for this mode can be balanced in this way.  If you think balanced sets are more important that monsterous tyranids vote "Genestealer Cult War".

[Ozymandias]

You could always have a player, or number of players that are sargents or banner bearers, who give all marines within a certain radius various combat boosts. Problems abound with this though. How do you select such a player? What if they are a noob or just an idiot who wants to ruin the game for the rest?

Just had another thought: what if the marines accumulate 'experience points' as they fight? Not just for killing things, but just being alive, over time, the points build up. When they respawn, they can spend the points on heavy weapons and other gear. When they die, and go back to the normal bolter kit until they build up enough points again.

This way, the heavy weapons can be really worthwhile, and superior to the bolters, but you'll never have a situation where all the marines are packing heavy weapons, and there are no bolters.

Just a thought. I think that could work quite well.

[ChromeAngel]

From experience I can tell you if you give players rewards for doing nothing but staying alive their is a tendendcy for them to do nothing, they just lurk about in the shadows and dont play the game, which isnt fun.

[migb]

Yeah, and I'll like to bring up my earlier suggestion again.
You only earn points while being a standart marine (bolter), resulting in about halt the SM team being standart marines at all times.

The same thing could be done with Tyranids. You have to play as a gaunt swarm to gather points for synapse creatures. This would lessen the problem that noone wants to play gaunt, 'cause they're too weak compared to a SM.

[Ozymandias]

That's a good idea migb, that way you won't have any marines building up a heap of points from their heavy weapon stint and simply buying another when they respawn.

As for giving points for nothing, it has to be balanced correctly. So long as kills are still worth a good chunk of points (say 30 to 60 seconds worth?) the players will still be motivated to get into the action when they have only a bolter. The reason I suggested having points accumulate with time is so that even newbies can get a shot with the heavy weapons, not just the more skilled and experienced players.

[The Vastator]

but. Ozy, as Chrome said, if you give points just for staying alive, you'll see a lot of campers.
How about points for objectives?

[ChromeAngel]

Points for objectives yes, in fact this will probably be the main source of rewards.  We can make it like RS, so that expensive reward classes can earn some points, but they have to work just as hard to earn them as other classes.

for example :
Tactical marine gets 1 point per point of damage done
Devestator marine gets 1 point per 10 damage done

Of course these ratios will have to be gauged and tweeked during testing.

[migb]

I say the same as Ozy.
Points should be awarded for both kills and staying alive, enabeling newbs to go heavy once in a while, and advoiding campers.
One other thing, maybe staying-alive points should only be given when people are standing somewhere useful. In close range to a teammate (or two), or in short range of an objective, acting as guard.

The Tyranids should have a more rushing approach to points. Instead of points for staying alive, the gaunts should be awarded points for being near a Synapse creature when it kills marines. And of cause also for own frags and capturing objectives.

[The Vastator]

I don't like the stay-alive-get-points thing, since I really think that we'll have lots of campers, impairing the game, even considering what you're saying, Migb. Instead of a solitary camper we'll have a couple of campers, maybe camping in a point in wich you get points.
About what you say about Tyranids, that could be a good idea.

[migb]

Hey, if the Marines also got points for nearby kills, that would surely encourage teaming up, give points to newbs and discourage campers.
Why didn't I think of that in the first place  :roll:

[Ozymandias]

I think points based on the amount of damage done by each player would be a better idea. That way you'll live longer by teaming up, but you won't have 'groupies' following the good players around for no reason other than leaching off their kills.

As for campers, like I said, just balance it so the majority of points come from kills. Alternatively, just have the points accumulate over time, regardless of whether the marine is alive or in the spawn queue.

[ChromeAngel]

As for campers, like I said, just balance it so the majority of points come from kills. Alternatively, just have the points accumulate over time, regardless of whether the marine is alive or in the spawn queue.

If we did that the chances of a whole bunch of people getting an upgrade at the same time goes up dramaticly.

[Ozymandias]

If we did that the chances of a whole bunch of people getting an upgrade at the same time goes up dramaticly.

Only if the points accumulating over time are large compared to those gained from kills. If the kills are the larger source of points, which I think they should be, then people will be purchasing upgrades at varying times depending on their skill and luck. Also, assuming different upgrades have different costs, and not everyone wants the same upgrade, some staggering should occur.