Ultramarines Veterans

[bobafettone]

I just found out about this mod, and was looking through the screenshots that you have on the website for it.

I play Ultramarines in the tabletop game. They are my main army, and I've been playing for 2 years. My knowledge of them, however, only includes what I've read in Codexes (Codicies?), the rulebook, online, and what I've heard from other players and GW staff. I've never read any of the novels. I definitely don't claim to know everything there is to know, but as far as I know, Ultramarine Veterans are only in the 1st company, not the second. Shouldn't they have Silver trim, not Gold?

[Typheron]

all companies have Vet's in them, the 1st company vets are the elite of the elite (and also the ones to have access to termi armour). Our vets are 2nd companys finest.

[Zaqq]

You wrong. 1st company of Ultramarines have 97 veterans. There are veterans which wear TDA, vanguard veterans (melee), sternguard veterans (shooters). 2-10 companies have veteran-sergeants only. Read Space Marines' codex please 

[ChromeAngel]

he he, check out the veterans page in the manual  it kind of explains the teams take on them and translating tabletop gaming into a multiplayer FPS.

[Zaqq]

He he read codex. Meltapistols? Read fluff about SM

[Typheron]

the key word here is "our take on them"

[ChromeAngel]

I can see the being the type of topic that winds up 40k purists because were doing something against the 40k koan and winds Typheron up because their is perfectly rational explanation for why were doing it that he has explained it to dozens of other 40k fans before.

In an attempt to diffuse some of this tension I have updated the Exterminatus VS 40K sections of the manual articles for Warhammer 40,000,  Veterans and Inferno Pistols to elaborate a bit more on why.

Zaqq : Reading codexes is all very well but were making an FPS not reproducing a tabletop game, we do not use army lists or roll dice here.  If you read those articles I hope you will come to see that veterans with infrerno pistols out of unit coherency are as much of an unfortunate necessity as the Exterminatus team does.

Typheron : Feel free to politely direct rules lawyers and codex preachers to existing forum topics and manual pages, no point endlessly repeating ourselves (isnt this in the FAQ?).  There will be many more Zaqqs when EX is released and we cant relate to them all individually.  Maybe Zaqq or someone like him will actually contribute a practical fix one day.

[Typheron]

Its ok, i have a hot-key now i press that spams one of my most used phrases into posts. Maybe ill add a link to the FAQ when i press it too.

[Zaqq]

You have to do game in W40k universe. Not W40k+MY IDEAS...Veterans with bolters, boltpistols, chainswords, combi bolters, stormbolters, powerswords, powerfists but not with melta pistols

[Typheron]

Everyone takes there own take on the 40k universe, lets take a look at the Dawn of War franchise shall we.

Dawn of War, and from what we have seen, its sequel are both ignoring certain parts of the 40k core cannon because it suits them.  Squad sizes, certain squad types, the nature of some of the squads have all been altered in order to suit the gameplay and there view of the 40k universe. There was a Metla pistol in DoW too, its an upgrade for your commander in the later addons.

Additionally in the game Inquisitor characters can be armed with Melta pistols, there very expensive but they are there, meaning that on at least some level they are available.

Melta pistols are in the 40k universe, they do exist and are used by several different armies. Both Sisters of battle and space marines have them as well as witch hunters. There also called Inferno pistols in places placing some confusion between the melta version and the flame pistol version. The main user of the Melta pistol is Space Marine Commander Dante of the Blood Angels:

http://i.pbase.com/u39/the_vypers_pit/upload/25737233.DSC00696.JPG

there he is, and there is his melta pistol, in all its glory.

Additionally in the 40k RPG Dark Heresy, the Inferno pistol (under the Melta weapons section in the inquisitors handbook) is available to own for the cost of 7500 throne gelts (imperial currency) on the open market of any sutabily high enough tech world. They are described as Very Rare (which is the 2nd highest rarity, scarce being the highest) and have a insane armour penitration of 12 (civilian power armour *non astarties grade* has an armour value of 12-14) so its clearly a melta weapon. Given thats open market, i think its probably not too inconceveable that the ultramarines could lay there hands on a few, or make there own given there nature.

Thematically our justification of our vets carrying a cut down version of this powerful pistol is there need to engage Tyranids at close ranges where a boltpistol and a chainsword are just not going to cut it. It is a balancing act for the purpose of allowing the Space Marine team to function as a threat to the Tyranids up close and allowing a second melta weapon to balance the speed and ferocity of the tyranid players advance.

These are our justifications for havign them in-game, Tyranids have claws and acid, while marines have Bolters and Melta weapons. We will not be changing this as its part of the core of how the space marine team plays, so if you still have issues with this then Ex is probably not the mod for you.

[Zaqq]

fail

I know about Dante's pistol. But there are Ultramarines' veterans, not an army of Dantes. And SM dont use Inferno Pistols. Okey, why tactical marines in your mod shoot from bolters, not from SUPAGUN FX12?

[Typheron]

From my previous post:

Thematically our justification of our vets carrying a cut down version of this powerful pistol is there need to engage Tyranids at close ranges where a boltpistol and a chainsword are just not going to cut it. It is a balancing act for the purpose of allowing the Space Marine team to function as a threat to the Tyranids up close and allowing a second melta weapon to balance the speed and ferocity of the tyranid players advance.

that is our reasoning, we are fully aware that the ultramarines do not have standard access to such things in there Codex. Your stance appears to be that as there not part of the Codex: Space Marines then they should not be included in our mod. The major thing about a FPS is that it cannot ever work as the Table Top game works, there are no dice or random fate elements to determine how you aim and shoot, its entirly down to the skills of the player involved. See the above quote and the above post.

If you cannot accept this reasoning  then this is not the mod for you, we will not be changing our minds on this matter and it has been part of the design documentation for release one for some time. IF you can convince us with good reasons then that may change for later patches/releases.

The reason "its not in the codex" is valid, but not sufficient. Codexes change and the overall fluff of 40k has been subject to revision over time, most of the artwork and stories from Black library are full of this kind of thing, Guants ghosts for instance are able to take out several Chaos marines no problem in one story while a similar squad would have issues elsewhere in the Table Top. Its not consistant is what im sayign and the rulebooks can only be taken as a guide in genral for this kind of conversion.

Finally, your beginning to verge on Trolling. Short one word starts with use of "leet" speak and ovious attempts to annoy us team members will get you no-where. I ask that if you wish to continue this thread of discussion then please form coherant responces to the points both myself and chromeangel have raised.

[Zaqq]

Okey, okey . I am waiting your mod, I like Ultramarines...

[Karmorav]

the inferno pistol is a cool pistol anyway, why do people complan about it? its got great str on it AND ITS A PISTOL

[Zaqq]

the inferno pistol is a cool pistol anyway, why do people complan about it? its got great str on it AND ITS A PISTOL

Because in this universe there is one known melta pistol - melta pistol used by Dante.