Chaos Space Marines?

[migb]

Just agree with him Raz, give him his cookies, and we'll wait for that nice blue van with the friendly people in white to talk to him...

[Khargoth]

Well, I don't disagree with the Nids vs. Marines vote, because I want to see a good 40k mod for Source, and so far this has shapen up to be the best. But there is the question; what happens when you've perfected the gameplay for Nids vs SM? I mean sure, you can add new maps and possibly gametypes, but on a fundamental basis it will still be the same gameplay with different objectives. Now, I agree that it would not be appropriate to add all the races, as that's just introducing the same gameplay style with new skins, which is overall a waste of time. However, I believe that eventually effort should be placed towards introducing other races and finding ways to make them a unique playing experience.

I think the mods/admin are making a rather rash move telling everyone "There won't be other races, so stop asking.", because that dissapoints people and probably discourages them from even trying the mod. Why not say "Sure, we'll make another species if you can tell us how to make it a unique gaming experience instead of another SM army?" Let people put up their ideas and suggestions for gameplay for other races. Put it all on the backburner so that when you do finish the 'nids and SM, and the game starts to feel stale, you've got a big ream of info to dig into for ideas, saves you the time and effort of doing the noggin scratching for new content!

[Typheron]

Rash, i would disagree.

We spend the better part of 4 months arguing, discussing and deciding on the team situaion and the following still applies:

#1 were a small team, very small in fact compared to most mods. Its unfeasable that we could add other races as the time and effort required would be large.

#2 making such a statement stops the most annoying thing about making a 40k mod stop. That is fanboyism.

We have seen it all before on RS1, uyou get a thread that basically goes "screw(insert race A already half made) i want teh awesomez of (insert race B) tehy are roxxor and better, add them now"

Our general hatred of this type of post was one of the main considerations about only haveing a limited set of races.

#3 - force of conviction, we will invite everyone to comment on the proceedings once the 1st alpha has been released and played for a bit. It stops us being distracted by other issues in the mod. Mainly that we dont get user submissions or our own model team creating stuff for other races and then having another RS situation where a lot of time has been used to make nice models for stuff and there never gonna be in game. We cannot afford to spend time doing stuff like that since as i said the team is too small.

#4 - RS1 is still in development and will have everyone else in it, all but a few models are done and they just need implimented into the game when Bahl has the time. You want orks, play RS1, you want necrons play RS1 (eventually). RS1 will be far more stable and complete than rs2 for some considerable time anyways, and everyone can normally play half life on a machine these days while the source engine can still be too much for some.

This decision is by no means rash, we all want to see and play alll the races in 40k but realistically, short of our mod tem becoming considerably bigger the outcome will be nids Vs ultras with some IG for the forseeable future.

[Neoviper]

more races at SOME point would be good. not necessarily before the mod finishes, or even soon after it finishes. when the game is balanced, there should at least be a poll for a new race.

This is only a small dash of fanboyism here, but orks a pretty unique race, extreme close combat, bad range, but relatively tough. its kind of similar to tyranids, but instead of the well greased CC machine the tyranids seem to make, orks are a bit more of a get in there with enough players, and no gigantic things like carnifex's. i think that could reflect into this game well if there was the same followbot kind of thing that was in rs1, but with a limit higher than one per spawn.

Just for the record, this is all opinion, and not even valid opinion at that. right now all thats gonna be going in has been confirmed as marines and tyranids.

[Typheron]

this has been addressed in the thread you created, although ill add that the instant you add aonther race you unbalance everythign you have done.

seen it several times in the RS1 alphas.

[Wolf]

allthough i love nids and marine bashing, id rather the game finished before maybe more races, even tho another race cud be kewl, i can forsee the problem, the problem will be who gets voted in, we might see a band of fanboys join the forum just as the word new army is announced, they will vote who they want, and bugger of before the races the race they voted is done, allthough im pretty sure the team cud make any race awesome, but i jsut dont want to see somethign that is basic like chaos marines v marine... oo i bet my bolter can beat ur bolter. poeple uwd have to think carefully about wot they want, and not just go for their TT army, coz in the voting stage, the future of the game is decided, it can make or break the game.
Allright, i love imperial guard, im a storm trooper fanatic, but i dont think theyll be a great addition to the game, theres allready PDF and plus, the marines can fight them, so its all on nids.
(/rant end)

[Typheron]

the other major issue is that once you say "yeh we will add this race" everyone demands their fav, since you already did another.

this is the point where the dev team gets mightly pissed off and we dont want that.

[Wolf]

you wont like me when im angry  :evil: *turns a hint of lime* ah crap, it didnt work properly

[Khargoth]

Jeez, regular visitor I am

I appologise for giving you the wrong idea, I did mean that you should consider adding other races when you've finished and tweaked the current races and gameplay of RS2. I also agree with the problem of fanboys and unbalancing the gameplay, and as I said you should ask anyone who brings up these issues how they'd propose to keep the game balanced and provide a fresh experience with their wanted race. If they can, well, saves you some work; if they can't and gripe, I'll be one of the first to tell them to shut up.

But yeah, I'm all for sticking with SM vs Nids at this time, btw the SM models are looking amazing, keep it up, GO NOW!

[migb]

I think that adding a new race should not just be a matter of throwing in some new content, but to build a new game.

This can be done in 3 ways:
- Make a new game-mode, so one game-mode is SM vs. Nids, the other is SM vs. Chaos.
- Make a new mod, isolated from Exterminatus, re-using models and parts of the coding.
- Let some other team use models and code to make a new mod with another race.

The idea behind keeping things seperated is that you won't experience those map-rotations where you go from playing SM-Nid (balanced) to SM-Chaos (unbalanced).
Plus, it might be easier for the team to explain to the public why they don't "just add that race".

[Wolf]

if it was to be done also, and kept in same game, it would have to fit in with the current storyline of the hivefleet invading the plantet, and the UM's rushing to the fight coz smacking nids is a hobby of theres and mine (pulls out a hammer and smacks his mates nids models) it cant just be something unrelevant, unless it orks coz well there orks, and jsut want to fight, i dont see chaos joining the fight depending on where this planet is, eldar would have no reason unless their craftworld was in the warpath of the nids, dark eldar would rather jump eldar, whereas nids arnt much fun to torture (also no wants to prod a fex with a metal rod), it could be a tomb world for the crons i spose, intresting nid on cron action, but do crons have enough diversity weapon wise to keep a 1st person shooter fan happy?
im all outta races ^^, i feel i forgot someone, but im to lazy to find out who...

[Fulgrim]

you keep forgetting the TAU. But they probably would stay away from nids and their play style would be too much like SM anyway. We can always invent *something* for every race to fit to the background story but then it should be thought by what race adds to the gameplay instead of what's just cool.

I think it's a bit pointless to be talking about the next race at the moment as we don't even know how the plain SM vs nid-game will work and dev team aren't going to do anything for a new race in a long time for sure. After we have a working version of EX this discussion might have more sense.

[Wolf]

i knew i forgot someone, but they ent got a chance in hell of getting anywhere near in game when typhs part of the team, i dont think hell sirt there animating or moddeling his hatred.

true we shouldn't be thinking of the next until we atleast have a running version for the public, but theres nothing wrong with a lil small talk abous the +'s and -'s a race could give, so far, there arnt many +'s, coz basically, each army has their fualts with fitting in, whether it be to similar play style, or unfluff-like usability (oo is ound smart, well as smart as the word fluff makes u sound) by which point we get the fan boys screaming and scratching about this should happen bla bla bla, and my favourite character bla bla should lead the new race and bla bla they should win the overall storyline outcome.

by this point, dev team doesnt read there posts and there will either be no new race or it will be chosen within a select few members, maybe jsut the dev or testers included or the long time supporters

[Typheron]

Oh i would animate Tau, its just that every animation would be them turning inside out and exploding, or otherwise being dismembered.

thing about necrons is this, 'Nids activly avoid them and have gone arround several cron tomb worlds despite them having rich vegitation and the like.

gotta be worrying when the nids dont wanna go near them.

[migb]

OK, so chaos and orks were the two other races in the poll.

Well, chaos could fit neatly into the storyline.
Remember that the chaos forces got planets of their own, sometimes fully detached from the Imperium, sometimes keeping a facade up.
If the Nids got the idea to swallow up a chaos-worshipping planet, the fallen marines would get in their way.
And chaos doesn't really need an excuse to fight the Imperium. They are the archenemy, remember?

Orks - will fight anything that crosses their path.

Chaos in the game:
Easy to make both player- and weapon models from SM models. Just add spikes.
Equipment- and stats-wise are they very simmilar to regular SM. To make a difference, psyker powers and demons (as players) could be introduced, or special units (Khorne berzerkers).

Orks ingame:
Most models must be made from scratch. Very different from both SM and nids visually.
But orks actually play a lot like nids - close-combat oriented, with a bit of shooting. To make a difference, give orks veichels.
It could be a problem that orks generally are much weaker than a SM or a warrior.